(PRIME) Oleksandr Usyk vs. (PRIME) Joe Frazier

Not going to argue with anyone who wants to give Usyk the edge in this, but in terms of size and level, the Ali that Frazier beat in the FOTC was 6'3" and 215 lbs. Usyk has a nearly identical height and reach to Ali and has fought in the low 220s in most of his heavyweight fights.

So, it's not like he'd have any otherworldly size advantage compared to what Frazier has dealt with.

 

I think it’s also important to note that Chisora threw far less power punches than Joe which could also affect how Usyk handles his relentlessness and workrate

 

Frazier’s load step works best against opponents with predictable foot placement and limited lateral movement. The issue isn’t just that Usyk "stays away"—it’s that he actively manipulates distance, changes angles mid-exchange, and denies opponents the ability to build momentum. All of these elements would make Frazier’s usual bag of tricks far less effective, preventing him from imposing his game.

Every fighter presents a unique challenge, but solving a bigger, stronger opponent with every physical advantage (height, reach, weight, power) is a more difficult task than dealing with a smaller opponent whose style can be negated with superior footwork and movement, both of which Usyk excels at. Frazier was hard to land on, but not impossible. Ali, Ellis, and Quarry all landed their shots when needed, particularly Ali, who consistently found Frazier with jabs and straights. The difference is that none of them had the power to trouble him, so he could afford to walk through their punches to deliver his own. That approach wouldn’t work against Usyk, who wouldn't let Frazier close the gap without paying a price, before circling away to reset.

The claim that Frazier was "excellent at avoiding straight punches" doesn’t hold up when you watch the fights. Ali hit Frazier with a lot of straight shots—it’s just that Frazier's tenacity allowed him to walk through them, wear Ali down, and take over late in their first fight. That strategy wouldn’t work against Usyk, who is far better at circling out of danger and is not vulnerable to the left hook the way Ali was.

And let’s be real, who has ever had success against Usyk with a left hook? The fighters who found openings against him did so with right hands, body work or in Fury's case counter uppercuts when Usyk was closing distance, not lead hooks. Frazier’s signature punch simply doesn’t match up well against a fighter like Usyk, for all the reasons I outlined.

 

if the very best version of Frazier could beat ‘71 Ali, he could beat Usyk.

problem is that version of Frazier only really showed up once, fueled by raged and anger. He wouldn’t have felt that way about Usyk, who would never have said any of the things that Ali did.

so it would be a great fight and who knows, but FOTC Frazier wouldn’t be the guy fighting.

 

But only Fury was dropped. You have to assume they all have better chins than Frazier due to size. That's a stretch

 

Dubois was also dropped by Usyk, and he’s shown a solid chin in his fights. But beyond that, size does correlate with punch resistance, heavier fighters can generally absorb more damage. That’s why we don’t see featherweights walking through heavyweight punches.

Of course, that doesn’t mean bigger fighters can’t get knocked out, punch resistance is still individual. But assuming a 205-lb fighter takes punishment better than elite modern heavyweights who are 230-270 lbs is the real stretch here. Usyk has landed clean on bigger, more durable opponents, and they’ve def felt his power. There’s no reason to believe Frazier, who was dropped and hurt multiple times in his career, would fare better.

 

Frazier knocks him out

 

But that's not what I'm arguing against. I have already said he could hurt Frazier, I don't see Frazier being hurt as a real deterrence to his pressure. I dont see Usyks power being "more than enough" to make him cautious enough to get picked apart down the stretch and controlled with feints let alone drop and stop him although I think Usyk beats him

 

I had forgotten about Dubois but he was also dropped 3 times by Lerena who was never known for power at cruiserweight. Frazier had decent power and a great left hook at heavyweight in the 70s. Even with the knee excuse there is a trend of diminishing returns in regards to the durability and punching power of fighters around 200lb compared to others around 250lb. Can Usyk stun Frazier? Yes, and i believe Usyk would actually beat Frazier in a close fight, but i just disagree about Usyk hurting shws equating to him keeping Frazier off

Bonavena was a slugger and likely developed that style because he had decent power, loading up on most of his shots wildly, Frazier walked into a huge right hand. Usyk probably hits harder, but Frazier still went forward against Bonavena bobbing, weaving, and can step back before evading punches after Usyk breaks his clinch. He's great at surviving and fighting on the inside despite being hurt, and let's be honest Usyk was never a great finisher. Frazier just resets unless he's on the verge of getting KO'd and imo after rewatching Bonavena vs Frazier his eradic head movement, constant position changing and aggression would make him incrediblly awkward for Usyk to deal with even when Usyk tries to take away his jab with lead hand controls and built off of them with one twos or combinations, but I think Frazier could get him on the ropes and break Usyk down in spots.

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Frazier took the power of Mathis who is much larger than bonavena btw, that fight was much earlier in his career and he never showed a weak chin outside of the Bonavena and Foreman fight. Historically and by numerous accounts across heavyweight generations i believe Foreman hits harder than anyone Usyk has fought but there is no real way to prove it.

Im on an edible lol

 

Based on Dubois absorbing hard shots from Miller, Hrgović, and Joshua, all of whom hit much harder than Lerena, I think we can fairly describe the Lerena knockdowns as an off-night rather than evidence of a vulnerable chin.

Regarding Frazier's power: it's worth noting almost all of his knockouts came against smaller opponents. Even his KO of Buster Mathis came more from systematic breakdown and exhaustion rather than one-punch power. His power was sufficient in his era but wouldn't translate as impressively against modern heavyweight dimensions. By contrast, Usyk has demonstrated enough power to hurt significantly larger men.

Usyk has enough pop to trouble Frazier and disrupt his rhythm, while preventing him from settling into his preferred fighting pattern. Frazier's toughness is legendary, but the notion that he'd simply reset and wear Usyk down ignores how Usyk systematically denies inside fighters the space they need.

Yes, Bonavena was awkward, but he was also crude and lacked refinement. He loaded up on wide shots and still managed to drop Frazier. Usyk is far more precise, calculated, and efficient. He wouldn't stand in front of Frazier throwing predictable punches, and even if Frazier momentarily trapped him on the ropes, Usyk's superior footwork would allow him to circle away before Frazier could capitalize.

As for the Foreman comparison—we can never know definitively, but even if Foreman hit harder, the gap wouldn't necessarily be enormous compared to some of Usyk's opponents. Many sparring partners have described Gassiev as the hardest puncher they've ever faced, so these power comparisons across eras remain subjective at best.

 

LOL, almost half the people here think Frazier would win.
The power of media propaganda on full display.
It's hard to even know what to say.

Go watch Foreman v Frazier and realise Usyk is basically the same size as Foreman and better in every way, probably even power.

Usyk is so vastly superior to Frazier it is truly shocking anyone thinks he wouldn't beat Frazier. You just have to watch 30 seconds of footage to see the insane difference in skill alone, let alone all the other factors.

Usyk is literally superior in every single category. There is nothing Frazier has an advantage in.

Usyk would utterly destroy him and it would be the easiest fight he ever had.

Serious, get a grip on reality and stop watching old Murican documentaries about your heroes from the b/w TV era.

 

Dubois also got stopped by Joyce, Joyce is a shw who stopped Parker but couldn't stop Jennings a cruiserweight. Going down that rabbit hole will only lead to more examples of it. Frazier taking Mathis's power was the point.

This is too baseless.

Frazier has absorbed punches from bigger guys who are more precise and calculated than Bonavena, outside of Foreman who is regarded as an atg puncher this is a one off if you want to dismiss Dubois getting dropped 3 times by Lerena. If Frazier traps Usyk on the ropes momentarily Frazier will capitalize like Briedis but to the body. Usyk has great footwork and yet when usyk was on the ropes he just shelled up, or punched back

 

Usyk is superior to Foreman in terms of power? Lol.

Foreman was rated as the hardest puncher Holyfield had ever fought. Yes, harder than Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson. At the very least, Foreman hit as hard as Lewis and Tyson.

If Usyk has comparable power to Foreman, then he has comparable power to Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis. Which is of course absurd.

I love Usyk and i think he is a good underrated puncher. But in no universe is Usyk even remotely as hard a puncher as Foreman. Foreman is arguably the hardest hitting two handed heavyweight ever. Foreman also threw devastating uppercuts from both hands. How many swarming heavyweights has Usyk destroyed with uppercuts?

Usyk doesn't hit nearly as hard as Foreman. As a matter of fact, he likely doesn't hit as hard as Ali. Ali stopped durable fighters like Bonavena and Foreman who are at least as big as Usyk's cruiserweight opponents.

the idea that Usyk will walk through Frazier is comical. Why didn't he walk through Breidis? Which durable cruiserweight did he stop?

 

Yes yes
Usyk better than Foreman in the power department, come on boy