3x Fury, 2x aj, 2x Dubois, 2x Chisora, 2x undisputed champion. Is this top 5 ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by MarkusFlorez99, Mar 27, 2025.


  1. GlaukosTheHammer

    GlaukosTheHammer Well-Known Member Full Member

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  2. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No it isn't Lewis's resume is considerably better.

    Vitali ---> Fury
    Holyfield ---> Joshua

    Then you have wins over the likes of....

    Golota
    Bruno
    Tucker
    Mason
    Tua
    Mercer
    Morrison
    McCall
    Rahman
    Ruddock

    There's 0 argument that Usyk is above the likes of Holmes, Lewis, Ali, Louis.

    I wouldn't even put him above Tyson, Holyfield, Wladimir, quite honestly.
     
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  3. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If Usyk beats Dubois now as the number 1 contender, he can be argued to be a Top 10 HW of all time. Ifhe beats Dubois and Parker/Kabayel he has an argument for Top 5. Another win over Chisora won't boost his legacy.
     
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  4. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    @Serge

    I would like to know what you think.
     
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  5. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I really wonder how Eastern European fighters would have done earlier. They didn't start turning pro on a world wide scale till the 1990s and we have seen the result.
     
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  6. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Serge has him goat, or close
    I have a lot of respect for him, despite our extreme differences in opinion on this matter

    But I'm sure the man himself will deliver the knockout blow. He can certainly post in style lol
     
  7. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Not sure, but Ali, Foreman, Lewis etc were Olympic champions, so j bet they would beat them in pros
     
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  8. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He has him the GOAT for his overall career. Heavyweight alone I don't know he can answer that.
     
  9. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

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    Resume places the fighter within an era... Then the era places the fighter in history.

    It's possible that Usyk would've beaten dominant champs of better eras - equally, he hasn't had the same level of challenges they overcame and that makes it difficult to decide whether he's even their equal (let alone their superior!).

    Usyks skills are awesome, and having done it at cruiser and then moving up to fight much bigger guys is another feather in his cap... But... It's just not that good an era, even if he did properly clean it out (where Wlad didn't because he didn't fight his brother).

    I have my suspicions Usyk is a lot better than he's had the opponents available to prove (I think you do too!) but the higher up the levels you go, the fewer make it - and I don't see that it's fair to give him a free pass for what others had to prove (I feel the same about overhyped fighters within an era as I do about atg lists)

    Loads of points that could be argued multiple ways - that's why these discussions are often interesting.
     
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  10. Clout

    Clout Member Full Member

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    I can see both sides of this argument. It's not a deep resume at heavyweight, but he's come up and beaten each of the main guys convincingly, and the best of them twice. Also, he's not only never lost, but never really looked in trouble. I can imagine Holmes, Lewis, Ali, Louis, etc. losing, as I saw them all lose, and sometimes losing to people who weren't all that great. However, there is definitely a longevity element to greatness. That said Usyk was beating a younger, much, much bigger Fury (who previously some people had said would have beaten any heavyweight in history head-to-head) when he was older than Ali was when he was losing to Spinks. And M Tyson was pretty much shot at the age Usyk even moved to heavyweight.
     
  11. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    No he gets hit often, I don't think he is better than what I've seen

    I honestly don't rate him as highly as you and I'm.not trolling. He's an extremely hittable fighter and that's a weakness against Better opposition

    In contrast I think Floyd can go up other gears if he faced stiffer competition, as he is much less hittable and lands with much more accuracy

    I do believe Usyk is overrated and I understand I'm in the minority. I still think he's great of course, but not as great as everyone else.
     
  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    I have Usyk as a GOAT given what he has achieved amateur and pro, the utterly fearless and honourable way he has gone about handling his career achieving everything he has in his opponent's backyards and on the road as the B-side with the deck heavily stacked or stacked against him.

    With zero deck-stacking.

    Zero trying to gain huge advantages at the negotiating table, be they fair or unfair.

    Zero trying to cripple or weaken opponent's at the negotiating table so he is essentially rolling with loaded dice.

    And winning via the application of pure skill and the sweet science and 2 legal weapons with zero use of illegal and dirty tactics

    Zero home refs and just 2 combined home judges for all his world title fights and fights at the world level, which is the complete antithesis from fighters from across the pond.

    Never have ducked or dodged anyone, certain styles or punchers, even in their backyards where he is already at a big disadvantage against them.

    For achieving everything he has in just 23 fights.

    And for never having been KO'd, dropped or even noticeably hurt or or put on shaky legs despite facing an absolute murderer's row of savage punching KO artists and legit bangers, many much or way bigger than him whose power is devastating against fellow natural HWs and giants, which is incredibly rare throughout boxing history and I mean so insanely rare you can probably count the champions who haven't been so on one hand, or two at most.

    And even more impressive is he's not a runner or a spoiler. Sure he can box the ears off anyone on the backfoot but he's aggressive and he throws a lot of shots and, likewise, he can also box your ears off by standing in front of you using lateral movement

    This content is protected
    nd he isn't scared of getting hit even from savage punching giants who hold huge physical advantages over him

    Re. his HW legacy and opposition. He was already four months away from turning 35 when he beat AJ the first time and his subsequent wins over AJ again, Belly x 2, and Dubois have all come between the age of 35 and almost 38 and he was already past his prime long ago.

    Personally I wish he would retire as he's clocked the game both amateur and pro and is an old man in boxing years and come the end of July, if he still holds the belts, he will became the 5th oldest HW champion of all time and the oldest ever undisputed one so this speaks volumes about how exceptional Father Time's record is vs HWs in their late 30s and I mean Father Time vs actual natural HWs the[COLOR=var(--darkreader-text-000000, #e8e6e3)] same size as him.
    [/COLOR]
    Usyk is godly but he is still mortal. The prime version of Usyk was so much faster, with much faster reflexes and reaction times and none of these HWs would've stood more than the proverbial puncher's chance vs him. He would've schooled the vast majority of them if not all of them.

    But if he were to beat Dubois again at 38.5 y/o, which as I keep saying is a really risky fight for him to take at this age when you can get old overnight, and given Dubois' huge advantages in power, size, youth and run of form, it would be very impressive to add to his already very impressive HW resume. AJ, Belly and Dubois were/are all the only other champions during this era when he moved up to take control of it and he was locked into rematches against AJ and Belly, rematches they didn't deserve so he was forced into facing them and giving those giants who hold huge, obscene physical advantages over him another chance to beat him when he already had everything stacked against him the first time of asking.

    Now he's been crucified for opting to fight a rematch for the first time in his career to silence the critics who cried long and hard about the controversy of the first fight where many claim Dubois was robbed of a KO victory, which in addition to that is also the much more risky, dangerous and lucrative option for him than the guy he's being accused of ducking.
     
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  13. Ryeece

    Ryeece Member Full Member

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    I don't there is a "right or "wrong" all time list.

    I don't see it as Ali and Louis top 2 or "else".
     
  14. AdamT

    AdamT Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Me reading the above is the equivalent of Holy water being thrown on a Demon, lol
     
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  15. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Obviously they would've achieved much or way more had they turned pro younger than they did. Take Loma for example he would've been a six or seven weight champ bare minimum had he turned pro in his teens and at the same age as so many other greats did. There really is no disputing this unless you're a hater and even then they won't be able to produce any plausible or convincing argument to the contrary

    And obviously if these Soviet brothers fought exclusively at home with home refs and very often 3 home judges almost all the time like they do across the pond and everyone had to travel over to their neck of the woodlands to face them on a deck heavily stacked against them it would be a very different story, especially for US fighters who have the luxury of that HUGE advantage in their favour so often, a luxury completely unique to them in world title fights at home
     
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