How come the strong consensus is Ali and Louis are the top 2 heavyweights of all time?

I agree Holmes avoided guys. But if you compare Witherspoon to Schmeling or Mercer to Walcott, those comparisons are not outlandish. The fact that he came back in his 40's to beat a legit top 10 contender like Mercer (who gave ATG's like Lewis hard fought fights) is remarkable.

At heavyweight, you can make a case that even a fading Norton is better than Conn, who was more of a light-heavyweight. Beating Shavers and Cooney is probably the equivalent of beating Baer etc.

I am a big fan of Louis and even though he cleaned out his era more thoroughly than Holmes, his competition wasn't exactly outstanding. He did beat good competition but it wasn't exceptional like Ali or Holyfield.

 

Ali clearly won the second fight.

 

Def not clear was a close fight i had it for Norton

 

You can make the same case for most modern heavyweights compared to Louis or even Marcanio's competition

 

I don't think the two resumes are in any way comparable. Baer, Schmeling and Walcott are all minor greats. Witherspoon is not.

 

H2H Witherspoon is a much better fighter then any of those

 

H2H is not how resume's are judged. ALL H2H between fighters who have not fought each other are hypothetical. A fighter's legacy is judged by what they accomplish in their own era.

 

Beating better fighter should count for more when you're comparing fighters of different eras that's why it's more impressive for Ali to be the top of the 70s then Louis being the top of the 30s

 

That I am not arguing about. Liston, Foreman and Frazier have better historical legacies than Baer Schmeling and Walcott. What I am saying is that it is not kosher to give Witherspoon points over Baer based on "head to head," because that is entirely hypothetical.

 

I think its clear watching both Witherspoon is levels above Baer

 

Not in terms of power and durability. Skill wise, yes.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. Rescoring fights when you know the outcome is a mug's game.

 

Beating better fighters is more impressive to me then "greater" fighters who would make those "greater" fighters look like chumps but yeah that's why I tend to rate more modern fighters higher then older fighters

 

And beating the more skilled fighter is more impressive to me

 

But most people would agree that power and durability are a part of the sport.