Your Hottest Takes:

I disagree that Huni and Wardley should be highly rated over men like Zhang and Joyce on the strength of regional accomplishments. Put it this way, if I asked you to compile a top five at heavyweight, I'd be very surprised if these two figured into your list. I don't have either one in my top ten.

On Whyte, he had already been passed over for Ortiz in 2018. Ortiz was absolutely a mandatory before the failed test put his status into question. That's the issue here. Why was Ortiz, as a lower ranking non-champion, given the nod over Whyte? I'm specifically referring to the time before the Wilder fight even occurred (for Ortiz), before he renegotiated with Wilder, and before Rivas and Povetkin (for Whyte).

Lastly, I can't tell if you're being facetious here, but Luis Ortiz was widely reported to have tested positive for what is, pharmacologically, first and foremost, a diuretic. Diuretics, when used in conjunction with performance-enhancing drugs, act as flushing agents. The specific drug Ortiz took, as a SIDE EFFECT, is known to reduce blood pressure, which incidentally is also sometimes desired to counteract the hypertension caused by steroid abuse. Ortiz also popped for nandrolone (an anabolic steroid) in 2014.

 

To be clear @NoNeck, I am commenting on the inconsistency displayed by the WBC, not backing Whyte nor targeting Ortiz.

 

Fine, I’ll check with Google.

Ortiz tested positive for HCTZ and a beta blocker. HCTZ is a diuretic (HTN med), but you can’t take it with a beta blocker if you have normal blood pressure because your pulse and blood pressure would go too low. You’d have shortness of breath. It would suck. Ortiz got cleared for this and was backed by the doctor who was treating him for HTN. The WBA dropped him as a mandatory, unfairly imo and likely influenced by Hearn, and he fought Wilder in a sanctioned fight, but I see no evidence that he ever was a mandatory. 240 pound black men who are pushing age forty have high risk of high blood pressure. Tony Thompson had the same issue.

In 2018, Ortiz and Whyte were ordered to fight a WBC eliminator for mandatory status. Whyte never came to the table. He fought Chisora and then further screwed himself over by testing positive for steroids against Rivas, which was later overturned and important in him finally getting his WBC title shot, which he got embarrassed in.

Hearn strikes me as shady guy in all of this. He briefly signed Ortiz to Matchroom and gave him crappy opponents instead of Joshua and Whyte. He then steered Whyte away from Ortiz for a chance at Wilder and went the political route instead. And he never put Whyte in with Joshua when the window was there for the rematch.

 

I wouldn't, though he has a puncher's chance. Truly a sniper, though what Tubbs and Rahman did can be replicated by a better, more accurate fighter with proper power. Corrie couldn't take as much as he dished out, though once again -- he could dish out a lot. Frazier from the Foreman rematch is a question mark, granted. Past it by all means.

 

The embarrassing knockout loses belong to Norton and and Moorer in multiples. Sanders only got caught against Tubbs. He gassed out against Vitali and Rahman in wars. And Rahman was fortunate that he got a slightly out of shape Sanders, but I still think he’d get it done against Norton and Moorer.

 

I know this will be controversial, but I believe Sandy Saddler is the greatest featherweight of all time. I mean he beat the guy who is generally regarded as such 3 out of 4 and all within the distance.

In fact, I think Saddler’s three wins over Willie Pep — especially the first one, a clean KO 4 — are the three best wins by any featherweight in history and there’s an argument to be made that they’re the three best wins by any one fighter in boxing history.

 

Gators are harder to fight than kangaroos are.

 

I usually copout & rate them tied for #1. IMO, Pep's plane crash injuries can't be overlooked, but neither can the emphatic nature of Saddler's wins, so tying them is a sort of compromise in my eyes.

 

That's assuming Ortiz had normal blood pressure as, according to you, a black man (he's Cuban) who's used nandrolone (known to interfere with circulation). Hearn having the capability to "unfairly" influence the WBA does not help your case, it helps mine.

If I were in the Whyte camp, I too would advise in favor of Chisora and Parker over Ortiz. Those two represent significantly more money than Luis Ortiz in the UK, not to mention Whyte at that time was in near-constant negotiation with AJ for a rematch. I still haven't gotten your interpretation as to why Ortiz (lower rated non-champion), Fury (presumably unrated non-champion), Breazeale (lower-rated, "first mandatory" non-champion) were given their shot before Whyte, who was already silver champion. Why was he being given a chance to fight for "second mandatory" as number one contender? Why, if we're given to understand the silver belt holds value, was Whyte made to fight Rivas for a vacant interim title and Povetkin for a vacant diamond (introduced for the very first time at heavyweight) title? Maybe it has something to do with all those belts having fees tied to them somehow? Maybe instead of collecting from just a pool of Wilder, Ortiz, Breazeale, and Fury, the WBC thought it could string Whyte, Browne, Parker, Rivas, and Povetkin along too.

 

The powers that be knew of Holyfields HGH abuse, other P.E.D. usage and swept them, along with his numerous headbutts, under the rug or looked away because post prison Tyson was a PR nightmare and they hoped he'd go away after losing.

 

Sorry Pat, whilst I don't consider Saddler's first two wins over Pep are the best in boxing history, given you just said "an argument can be made", I'll concentrate solely on Saddler's third win and state that no credible argument can be made that it's one of the best 3 wins in boxing history, if the standard of the beaten opponent and/or the quality of the victor are the determining factors.

Pep was borderline shot by their 3rd fight. Tbf, so was Saddler. They're the two greatest FWs of all time, yet just 9 months later, Tommy Collins stopped Pep 3 rounds quicker than Saddler, whilst Saddler himself lost the fight before Pep 3, as well as his next 3 bouts.

Pep vs Saddler 4 was a bout between 2 borderline washed up ATGs. They're ATGs because of the levels they'd previously attained, not the level they were at by their third contest.

 

Show me a single boxer who used a beta blocker as a PED. And don't take my words out of context or we're done here.

Wilder fought Ortiz in sanctioned fights, not mandatories. Whyte didn't do what he needed to become a mandatory, so Wilder fought better opponents than Whyte and Whyte got laid out cold by an old as dirt Povetkin. It's that simple.

 

I think Beterbiev is up there imo, but he seems to prefer shorter sneaky punches to break down the opponent. It works for him because his well developed hands, wrists and forearms allow for great power transference. He's a great blend of training and technique in terms of power imo, but he doesn't have 'natural freak' power like a Hatchetman Sheppard etc.

 

Totally agree he is overrated his best win is Gvozdyk who had a grand total of 1 title defence and beat a shopworn 41 year old Stevenson.

Better yet to go one further I wouldn't even put Beterbiev in the top 10 regarding power I don't think he even hits as hard as Stevenson.

Michael Moorer
Archie Moore
Michael Spinks
Bob Foster
Adonis Stevenson
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Marvin Johnson
Roy Jones Jr
Bob Satterfield
Sam Langford
Antonio Tarver

That's just some random names I thought of off the top of my head.

I also thought Bivol beat the breaks of Beterbiev in their 2nd fight and won handily.