Were does Usyk rank P4P all time?

Joshua and Fury pale next to Lewis and Bowe.

 

I disagree ...

 

They don't pale next to Bowe. Lennox deserves to be ahead of them sure.

 

Joshua and Fury certainly do pale in comparison to Lewis.

Bowe has a similar resume to Fury with a bit more filler but Bowe was prime when he fought Holyfield at 25 years old not a 36 year old Fury coming off arguably losing to an MMA fighter.

I also think Bowe at his best is a considerably better H2H fighter than Joshua atleast.

 

You cannot compare Bowe w Lewis … Lewis was far superior. Bigger, stronger, faster, a harder hitter, smarter, better conditioned, better defensively … Bowe I feel is a toss up w the best AJ and loses to Fury. Bowe struggled w Holyfield when Evander boxed and had trouble w Tubbs.

 

I actually believe that they were.

 

I didn't compare Bowe to Lewis I said Fury and Joshua are not on the same level as Lewis in which in your original comment you said you disagreed with and I don't agree with that.

Lewis is considered amongst the top 5 Heavyweights of all time or not far off it and he was in his prime whilst Holyfield was 37 years old.

Joshua wouldn't even be in the top 30 Heavyweights and it would be a stretch to say Fury would even be in the top 20 he wouldn't be in mine.

As for Bowe i said Bowe has a similar resume to Fury but you're missing the context of Bowe being at his absolute peak when he fought Holyfield.

Where as Fury was 36 years old coming off an abysmal performance vs an MMA fighter.

So to put it simply.

The versions of Lewis and Bowe that Holyfield fought are considerably better than the versions of Fury and Joshua that Usyk fought.

You're also bringing up Bowe struggling vs Tubbs who would be a top 3 opponent for Fury and Holyfield who was an ATG in his prime.

How about Joshua getting destroyed by Ruiz and Dubois whilst being on the floor like 10 times over 2 fights ?

Or Fury getting a gift decision vs an MMA fighter and McDermott or almost losing to a fringe contender in Wallin ?

Trust me Fury and Joshua have have had their fair share of low points.

 

Well they weren't as I've showed you above.

 

But you are wrong. The WBC archives aren't available but...

WladKlit- Unifed Champ
Wilder 2- WBC Champ
Wilder 3- WBC #1 (I think)
Dillian Whyte- WBC interum
10/2014 Chisora #3 IBF, #1 WBO
1/2015 Christian Hammer #1 WBO
5/2019 Tom Schwarz #3 IBF, #2 WBO
8/2019 Otto Wallin #4 WBA,

I am positive that if we had access to the WBC ratings we would get another 1-2 fights on there.

 

Sanctioning bodies goal isn’t to rank all active fighters, just fighters who pay their sanctioning fees and move up their rankings through their sanctioned fights. Only ring ranked counts for me

 

His argument was that Fury has only beaten 3 ranked fighters--I can only disprove what he has argued. If I were listing Fury's notable opponents most broadly, I would say:

Wlad Klit
Wilder II
Wilder III
Chisora I
Whyte
Chisora II
Chisora III
Cunningham
Walllin
Kingpin Johnson
Hammer
Pianeta
Rogan
Schwarz

No, it ain't Ali, but its not as terrible as some make out, either, especially considering Chisora's weird 11th hour resurgence.

 

Yeah that's a much better set of wins than he gets credit for. Despite losing to Uysk twice he was still impressive both times and he arguably beat Wilder the first fight when coming back from 400 pounds in weight which is a heck of a comeback.

 

You haven't disproven anything clearly I'm on about Ring Magazine Ratings which are normally a good gauge who the current top 10 Heavyweights of that year are or who were the notable Heavyweights of that era. I've clearly shown that neither of those fighters were in the top 10 when Fury fought them hence nothing I've said is untrue. Only 3 of those fighters were ranked in the top 10 were not talking about sanctioning bodies for crying out loud.

When people are looking at the likes of Ali's resume to see how many ranked fighters he's beaten they use Ring Magazine Ratings you know this so I'm not sure what the confusion is to be quite honest.

And yes it is a pretty terrible list a majority of those names wouldn't even be top 20 Heavyweights of that era.

 

Exactly when people analyse a resume they use Ring Magazine for reference who in the world uses a sanctioning body to rank a fighters resume ?

Clearly most of those fighters were not top 10 Heavyweights when Fury fought them and with hindsight most of them wouldn't even be top 20 Heavyweights of that era.

 

Classic once again letting their Heavyweight obsession cloud their thinking . This is a P4P question. Usyk cleaned up possibly the strongest ever Cruiser division, both historically and H2H, in dominant fashion. He then went up and became undisputed against the best Heavies of his era whilst being massively outweighed, which he again did in dominant fashion. He has actually done what many on here theorise that classic heavyweights could do.

He is absolutely minimum Top 80 and I believe as high as Top 60. Legitimately great fighter who does not seem to get his props in this section for some reason. H2H he would also be a nightmare for a lot of past greats near his size.