James Toney vs 70s George Foreman (15 rounds) - challenger withstanding

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Journeyman92, Apr 16, 2025.


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  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Foreman .
     
    he grant, Apr 18, 2025
    he grant, Apr 18, 2025
    #46
  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Thought I was losing my mind. :lol:
     
    swagdelfadeel, Apr 18, 2025
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    #47
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  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    You're wasting your time mate. Guys like Kamikaze and CT have trouble grasping the simplest of concepts.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Apr 18, 2025
    swagdelfadeel, Apr 18, 2025
    #48
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  4. SixesAndSevens

    SixesAndSevens Gator Wrestler Extraordinaire Full Member

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    SixesAndSevens, Apr 18, 2025
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    #49
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  5. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    At last! The chosen one…
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    Last edited: Apr 18, 2025
    Journeyman92, Apr 18, 2025
    Journeyman92, Apr 18, 2025
    #50
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  6. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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  7. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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  8. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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    Foreman by brutal knockout
     
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Apr 18, 2025
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Apr 18, 2025
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  9. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Beat for beat I can see this exact scene playing out against Foreman 35:46 have people ever seen “Big” James on the ropes?
     
    Journeyman92, Apr 18, 2025
    Journeyman92, Apr 18, 2025
    #54
  10. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Okay, beginning the discussion, I don’t think Foreman jabbing or hitting the chest to wear Toney down is something I’d assign as a component personally as we’ve never seen it in any of his body of work (I hope I’m not missing any because I’ll hear it from the Foreman mafia lol) and I’d like to start with a few questions to understand your frame? You think it’ll go to decision (we agree he can’t KO “Big” James) for Foreman (15 rounds UD?) can I ask how will George work Toney over on the ropes for 15 rounds? Because I don’t think you’d disagree? and neither would Foreman… if you went backwards the Ol bull would chase you right to the ropes he never demonstrated otherwise he just doesn’t have the inside skills to dispatch of Toney at that range or the wind right?
     
    Journeyman92, Apr 19, 2025
    Journeyman92, Apr 19, 2025
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  11. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Toney had two ways of setting up his offense, especially in the Peter bout.

    Jabbing whilst holding center.
    Slipping and riding the right and coming back with his right and sometimes a right uppercut, which he uses to set up the rest of his infighting.

    I've already covered how foreman stops Toney jabbing in my first post

    On Toneys right and infighting, Toney nearly always sets his work up off a counter right. Foreman's chin simply makes counters ineffective and wouldn't deter him activity wise. Toney isn't fit or active enough, not powerful enough, to exhaust Foreman, who would shove and bully Toney as he did frazier when in close. Most of Toneys infighting would be pre emptively negated by Foreman's shoving his shoulders (as he did to frazier), so he wouldn't need to actually outskill James here imo. Toney has shown in his career that he can fall into a defensive shell with a lax work rate when he can't be effective. Foreman would absolutely take advantage of this imo and work his body, kidney etc. Toney had a great chin but his body isn't indestructible.
     
    roughdiamond, Apr 19, 2025
    roughdiamond, Apr 19, 2025
    #56
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  12. Reallymakesmethink

    Reallymakesmethink Member Full Member

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    Foreman would most likely win but Toney would make him look very bad at points
     
    Reallymakesmethink, Apr 19, 2025
    Reallymakesmethink, Apr 19, 2025
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  13. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Good post RD, I’d like to return to points here but just clarifying… In your first post if I’m reading it correctly… you said you believe Foreman would use his extended hand to smother Toney’s jab that is to stop it before it got going? Similar to what he did to Norton? - I don’t really have any footage I can think of, of George using his left hand to do that, against Norton it was his right… that is if that’s what you’re talking about. Could you show me a fight where he did what you’re describing?
     
    Journeyman92, Apr 19, 2025
    Journeyman92, Apr 19, 2025
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  14. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    No offence mate, but this isn't some highly debatable strategic match up. They're a bunch of heavyset heavyweights. Both men are boxing their one way here. I'm not going through film frame by frame for this, especially to show tactics that Foreman very obviously uses in every one of his bouts (as many other good posters in this thread have also described). I know you've got a cob on for Foreman but your questions about what he'd do are bordering on being pedantic.

    And to answer your question, here's Foreman doing exactly as I said to Frazier within the first 10 seconds (and I specified both left and right hand in my second post on thread). And before you mention it, Toney as a heavyweight actually has more stylistic similarity to Frazier than Ali or Young in terms of positioning his body, so it's applicable

    Edit: re-watching Foreman-Frazier here with fresh eyes actually makes me think it would be an even wider beat down for Foreman

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    Last edited: Apr 19, 2025
    roughdiamond, Apr 19, 2025
    roughdiamond, Apr 19, 2025
    #59
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  15. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Hey RD no offence taken, I was just asking what you meant, sometimes terms can be mixed up for example “rolling a right” is sometimes what people say for weaving it instead of using the shoulder etc, I could’ve misread. I just wanted to be clear. Also for clarity the version of Toney I’m using here is the version that fought Holyfield or the late cruiser version which absolutely is open for a strategic debate especially when Frazier in the second fight with minimal movement, shot, fighting very uncharacteristically caused him so much grief GF was at the end of his stamina in that bout form what I noted… I should’ve put in the OP which version doe I’m seeing a lot of guys talk about the Peters fight when he was I think like a 240lbs hamster. I do have a “cob” for Foreman I guess, in the same way you would if say a guy you thought wasn’t very good is overrated, I actually really respect him as a fighter it isn’t some seething dislike of the person or anything. I put this thread up because it’s an unconventional take I wanted to debate and I know how popular Foreman is here - but for now I have Easter eggs to hide (I’m from AUS Timezone etc) hope you have a great long weekend / Easter mate we’ll resume later if you’re keen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2025
    Journeyman92, Apr 19, 2025
    Journeyman92, Apr 19, 2025
    #60
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