Do you consider Usyk's amateur and/or WSB accomplishments to contribute to his legacy?

Joyce was faster and more fearsome in the WSB. He looks slow and lumbering today by comparison.

 

Am and pros are different. 3 rounds, different scoring system. Imagine if pros only went 3 rounds. How many fights would have had diffrent outcomes? Same can be asked of the Am's. Fight outcomes would be different if they went 10 or 12 rounds. You think Loma would have been 396-1? Probably not.

 

Depends on what you mean. His legacy in the pros stands on its own ATG merits, but taken with his lengthy amateur run and stop in the semi-pros (WSB) it makes for a cumulative legacy as overall fighter that is even greater than its parts' sum.

 

I guess it depends on how you frame the question:

If by legacy you mean legacy as a pro-boxer in terms of ranking among ATGs, I would say no. Only his pro boxing record matters
(his achievements at Amateur and in WSB are more of interesting footnote to his career).

If by legacy you mean overall legacy as a boxer, I would say yes. It all counts.

One thing about WSB, I still look at it as semi-pro as many do. I don't think it is correct to consider these as pro wins for a few reasons:
1) the fighters understood they were competing under a team-based format (mainly under national associations), not for themselves
2) the fighters understood this was a half-way testing ground which would allow them to still be eligible for AIBA competition (Olympics etc.), from what DoubleChin said it sounds like many were not expecting it to be included on their professional record. It was more a way to get a taste for something close to Professonal style.
3) the main one is that it was close to Professional style, but still had some differences:
For one, the gloves worn had more padding than pro gloves, more in line with Amateur competition standards.

10.8. Specifications
10.8.1. Ten (10) oz gloves will be used for the Bantamweight and the Lightweight Categories;
10.8.2. Twelve (12) oz gloves will be used for the Welterweight, Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight and Super Heavyweight Categories.
(WSB Competition Rules, p. 11)​

But in general, I think when we talk about ATG heavies etc., amateur achievements tend to be seen as footnotes/background (even impressive ones) but don't affect how they are weighed against their peers in the pro ranks.

 

What makes this all a bit messy, is Audley Harrison has his Prize Fighter tournament wins on his resume (on Boxrec at least). Those were a one-day tournament format of 3 x 3minute round fights.

But perhaps that points to what many already know. Harrison was great over 3 rounds. He has an Olympic Gold medal after all, but he came undone in the pros.

Which kind of strengthens your point.

 

In fairness, today he looks shot. Also, I imagine Dubois would've preferred to face a slightly younger Joyce over 5* rounds with 12-ounce gloves, than getting his eye busted up over 10 rounds with 10-ounce ones. Joyce's style favoured attrition, especially as he stepped up the level of the competition. 5* rounds with bigger gloves doesn't really do him justice.

*edit: 5 rounds for WSB

 

Yeah, him and Felix Savon are the greatest heavyweights ever!

 

Of course you are right here and this is true for all pro sports .

I see this thread more as a try to "boost" usyk,s very slim hw legacy but there is nothing to boost. He stays at 8 hw fights against only 5 opponents .

 

No it's the set of skills Usyk possesses- that makes him top tier not the amount of fights. Olympic Gold though and a two weight undisputed is not too shabby

 

Is the opposition he has been fighting better than the likes of Bruno, Berbick, Ruddock? Fury maybe but not the version he did fight.

People are like well he is already 38 years old. Well there was an easy solution to that. Shouldn’t have stick around so long at Amateur. Then he would have had more pro fights.

 

Yes 100%, Joshua and Fury both beat the 3 guys named above? Dubois probably beats Bruno too

He didn't need to go pro early- proof is in the pudding. He's 38 and has cleaned up both divisions

 

I wouldn’t bet my life on that.

 

Pro boxing is regulated by a lot of bodies, not just the four main sanctioning bodies.

The four main sanctioning bodies usually don't get involved until titles are at stake, or qualifiers for belts are being held. All of Usyk's fights weren't governed by the four main sanctioning bodies.

I can't recall any boxer ever who had all his fights sanctioned by the WBC or IBF, for example.

Most fights on boxers' records are governed by local, state, national, and international boxing commissions.

Usyk has more than 23 pro fights on his record. You can watch them all for yourself on YouTube. Just search Usyk World Series of Boxing.

All the World Series of Boxing matches were governed by an international boxing governing body, and were all legit pro fights. No different than fights approved by state or any other athletic commission.

So I have no idea why you and others don't recognize them.