Could anyone out slug young Foreman?

You need to understand “Ring Rust” it’s just a buzz word we hear too much… it is real for novices but it comes off in hard sparring for a champion or an established pro… for the experienced guys you’re getting your timing down, weight right and used to being hit again in the camp - you’re already developed to use your skill set in a real fight and have been tested against good opponents.

Frequent fights are required for prospect pros (See Tyson’s early years same with Toney) in your first ever spar you will remember and do very little of what you were trained / taught to do on the pads… fighting is the same when you compare it to sparring… one thing to do it in sparring another in a fight, another again against a good opponent that’s why Toney attributed McCallum with making him a better fighter he didn’t learn anything new in the ring, he got the chance to apply all of his skills in a real environment you can’t do that on bad opponents you need someone good to “unlock” things for a lack of better words But once it’s “unlocked”…

“Before McCallum I was just runnin’ in on everyone, but he made me slow down and think for the first time.” - JT

“I learned how to be elusive without running around the ring by fighting Mike McCallum three times.” - JT

A real pro can fight once a year much like Canelo has and like Foreman here whilst not losing a step to “ring rust” I’ll repeat myself again “for the experienced guys you’re getting your timing down, weight right and used to being hit again in the camp” you don’t get to call it a comeback after a year off or say they’re rusty because they didn’t have a keep busy fight against Johnny Paycheck there sparring partners (as a former HW champion no less…) are usually better then that guy lol.

 

@greynotsoold Scroll up you’ll enjoy this post I reckon as the ghost of Archie Moore correct me if I’m wrong here… @Pat M and @cross_trainer you might like this to, Pat M we’ve come to the same opinion on this with Ali right? I think you’d agree here given the context etc.

 

Imagine being so insecure you need to tag THREE posters for vindication. I’ve been here 11 years and this just might be the most pathetic thing I’ve ever seen here.

 

I’m not denying he could fight on the inside, but he was much better at long and mid range, Lyle was better specifically at close range chest to chest at shortening up them bodyshots, slipping in tight and short uppercuts etc.

I’m not even saying Lyle had better bodyshots, uppercuts or punch selection, he didn’t, I’m saying he’s better at shortening them up when right up close.

If Liston’s gonna beat Foreman, it’s gonna be by keeping the solid jab in his face and punishing him with rights when he steps too far forward and sitting down more as Foreman wears out and selecting his combinations with precision from a good distance (long range for the straight punches and go into mid range for the bodyshots and uppercuts, then get right back out).

 

Imagine following someone around online just to cry about them for literal years… let it go no one cares, no one has ever cared that much.
By now you’re literally defined by your cartoonish hatred of me the way Mendoza was with McVey… when people see you post they probably just think of me by now lol.

 

Also again imagine being so insecure you publicly complain and tag others when people “like” certain posts you disagree with the irony, it’s just fictional boxing relax.

 

Daniel Dubois

 

Again, you leave out small things like the details ... Foreman was not just coming off the longest layoff of his young career but also a devastating loss and was matched against a very, very hard punching , hard hitting man that had zero fear of him .... not an ideal comeback opponent and it was a comeback when you add the longest time between bouts in his career with the psychological damage of the huge upset loss in front of a world wide audience.

 

I never left any of this out? the answer is across multiple posts here. Part of your answer to this question is in this post your quoting ffs he wasn’t “Rusty” and it’s not a “Comeback” you guys just keep saying that over and over when it’s VERY clearly not true and I just broke it down.

 

Stop acting surprised

 

You need to understand that Ring Rust is a very real thing, visually apparent to the eye and recognised and referred to by both trainers and fighters alike forever without any opposing argument suggesting that it is imagined.

Sparring etc. will only take you so far, it does not replicate the duresses and variable contexts of real time professional combat.

It also doesn’t account for the management of real time nerves that many fighters only take into the ring for a real fight OR fouls and slanted refereeing which I highly doubt is replicated in the gym - just to name two more differences.

To shake off some of the ring rust for the Hagler fight, Ray Leonard participated in 3 ? fully simulated, 12 round fights in the gym - an uncommon prep and one that would not be practical for a fighter each and every time out - increased likelihood of injuries and wear/tear to name two pitfalls.

Across the board, many boxers are fighting far less regularly than their predecessors, so they’re engaging opposition prepared in kind - as such, their successes are relative to similarly active/inactive opposition.

But the original point was/is that 13 month inactive Foreman was clearly rusty vs Lyle as well as him trying to adopt a modified, more restrained style.

Whether you think he could’ve overcome that with sufficient work in the gym doesn’t matter at any rate - I doubt that a depressed Foreman did much of anything in the interim and his Ring Rust was very much real.

Also look at Lyle’s far more active schedule by comparison - and Ron was also coming off a very similar slug out with no less than Earnie Shavers - very nice prep going into the fight against Rusty George - but Foreman still emerged victorious.

What say you @JohnThomas1 @swagdelfadeel and @Greg Price99 ? - did I drop some gnarly pearls of wisdom here or not?


Kidding. NRN - but feel free to drop in a like, even if it’s a pity like or if you feel it’s been heavily solicited - I’ll take whatever I can get.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and oh my, i am beholding!!!!!!!! It's Winston Wolfe type stuff if ever i saw it.

Lets listen to George. To be frank we both know it's hardly rocket science, tho.

“I have to stay active, that's my desire,” he said. “I want to be champion again, but you can't he out 15 months as I was. You've got to be active to be in top level activity. I was rusty. Inactivity means you're just this far from missing [taking] a punch—and it doesn't miss, and you get hit.”

 

First Pug I didn’t say it wasn’t real and I’ll clarify it now I said it is for novices and pros early on not for a very established guy who hasn’t fought in a year let’s take Canelo and other modern fighters for example… you can knock the rust off in hard sparring, it’s how it’s always been done and even back then if you weren’t fighting frequently enough to get paid to get sharp and that’s the preference as sparring partners cost money etc - you essentially got paid to fight sparring partners if you kept very busy and fought Johnny Paycheck etc. Refer to the first post to summarise ring rust again… don’t misrepresent me and say I’m calling it imaginary btw. To summarise your post… GF was sad and you just think he didn’t train hard… that he needed to fight Johnny Paycheck to prepare for Lyle? BUT you also said Ray Leonard sparred hard to prepare for Hagler to get rid of the ring rust? So you agree?

 

Cheers JT.

Now I can send you the usual monetary gratification or would you prefer a couple of cases of XXXX instead, just to change it up?

I drive a hard bargain though - whatever the gratification, it’s also subject to your Broncos beating the Panthers! Go Brisbane….

Re the Foreman quote provided - yes, hardly rocket science - it makes perfect sense.

 

I'll be throwing money everywhere if we beat those suckers!