Fury and Wilder status in their own era

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Cojimar 1946, Apr 27, 2025.


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  1. lobk

    lobk Original ESB Member Full Member

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    How can anyone look at Wilders resume and not say he was over hyped and very well managed. He didn’t fight anyone at all. His best win is Ortiz. All the big name he faced he lost too.
     
    lobk, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:35 PM
    lobk, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:35 PM
    #31
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  2. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I said he had a meticulously calculated career, you diagreed.

    Now you say "every top fighter with a top promoter gets matched carefully" oh. So it's on Eddie?

    The bottom line is I don't want to see a fighter with that many 40 year old washed up big names who DIDN'T get in the ring with his chief rivals get applauded for "risk taking".
     
    Slyk, Apr 30, 2025 at 11:05 PM
    Slyk, Apr 30, 2025 at 11:05 PM
    #32
  3. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wilder fought him when he was a feared power punching southpaw Cuban. He's a quality operator, Wilder took him out. You can't rewrite history.

    He's clearly better than the B level, clearly not as good as the elite. Going life and death with Ruiz (Joshua's best win in 7 years by the way) in a close fight says it all. An argument can be made that Ortiz was well past his best and had been stopped by the time Andy got to him, and that he would've fared far better pre-Wilder. We'll never know.
     
    Slyk, Apr 30, 2025 at 11:08 PM
    Slyk, Apr 30, 2025 at 11:08 PM
    #33
  4. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Disagreed with how you put it. Look, like I said EVERY promoter does that with their star. Doesn't mean they are all equal. That should be common knowledge to anyone who's watched boxing for a long while
     
    The Real Lance, May 1, 2025 at 10:41 AM
    The Real Lance, May 1, 2025 at 10:41 AM
    #34
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  5. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not rewriting anything. Ortiz was a solid contender for a sec. That's about it.

    agreed
     
    The Real Lance, May 1, 2025 at 10:43 AM
    The Real Lance, May 1, 2025 at 10:43 AM
    #35
  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Shavers. With better management. Which is still pretty darn good.
     
    cross_trainer, May 1, 2025 at 11:26 AM
    cross_trainer, May 1, 2025 at 11:26 AM
    #36
  7. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Is he really different from guys like Bakole and Makhmudov? Both were heavily hyped from knocking out poor opponents and then failed when they tried stepping up. If Bakole beats Ajagba he will be close to Wilder resume wise
     
    Cojimar 1946, May 3, 2025 at 9:28 AM
    Cojimar 1946, May 3, 2025 at 9:28 AM
    #37
  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I'd say yes. Wilder held a belt, and whatever we think about the quality of his opposition, he had to fight guys who'd at least made it far enough to challenge for one. Makhmudov failed to get to the point Wilder's challengers reached, twice. Bakole, we'll see. Early still for him.
     
    cross_trainer, May 3, 2025 at 10:04 AM
    cross_trainer, May 3, 2025 at 10:04 AM
    #38
  9. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Fury because he outpointed an end of the road Wlad and claimed the 'lineal' title, beat the unproven Wilder a bunch and Chisora a bunch. In between getting battered by Ngannou and bloodied by Wallin.

    Wilder because he had a long 'reign' and despite being a laughing stock within boxing for quite awhile beforehand, casuals began to believe in his formidability and even many genuine fans began to wonder what the cieling to his power and 'only needs to be perfect for a second' style was.


    Now that their careers can be put into their proper place, can see the fighters for what they really were.

    Personally I rate Fury high on ability and low on resume. I rate Wilder higher than most on both. But I do not think either, especially Wilder, seperated themselves from AJ substantially.
     
    kirk, May 3, 2025 at 3:36 PM
    kirk, May 3, 2025 at 3:36 PM
    #39
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  10. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Yes. Bakole hasnt beaten a Stiverne, an Ortiz, or even given someone of Furys level a competitive fight.
     
    kirk, May 3, 2025 at 3:39 PM
    kirk, May 3, 2025 at 3:39 PM
    #40
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  11. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's not that great a victory. Ortiz built his reputation beating and aging Tony Thompson and Bye Bye Jennings, and the Thompson fight was tainted with a failed PEDs test which I believe they said was blood-pressure medicine. Neither are that impressive in the first place.

    Not that good.

    You can't change history.
     
    catchwtboxing, May 3, 2025 at 3:45 PM
    catchwtboxing, May 3, 2025 at 3:45 PM
    #41
  12. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A guy with zero pro fights arguably beat Fury. Journeyman Wallin nearly stopped him and he was dropped by Pavlic and Cunningham. Regardless of where you rate Bakole he's clearly appears to be better than those guys
     
    Cojimar 1946, May 3, 2025 at 3:55 PM
    Cojimar 1946, May 3, 2025 at 3:55 PM
    #42
  13. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Thats all fine, but not sure what that has to do with my point tho. Bakole isnt on Wilders level until hes done things on Wilders level. As of now he hasnt.
     
    kirk, May 3, 2025 at 3:58 PM
    kirk, May 3, 2025 at 3:58 PM
    #43
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  14. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Now that hes failed to beat Efe, not only has he not come close to beating the level of fighters Wilder beat, time is now ticking that he ever will.
     
    kirk, May 3, 2025 at 5:51 PM
    kirk, May 3, 2025 at 5:51 PM
    #44
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  15. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wilder barely has a better resume than ajagba besides fury draw and that was highly controversial
     
    MarkusFlorez99, May 3, 2025 at 6:06 PM
    MarkusFlorez99, May 3, 2025 at 6:06 PM
    #45
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