Duran (Hagler fight) vs Jermain Taylor (Hopkins I & II fights)

Lederman's far from perfect and on and off.

Throwing up importance on being trained to score fights falls flat on it's face when you see the ridiculous variances in those "trained to score fights" while sitting side by side watching the same fight.

A few examples without trying too hard would be 118-111 for Holmes over Witherspoon vs 115-114 for Tim. These guys had over 1000 bouts between them yet score the same fight so incredibly different?

118-110 for Leonard over Hagler? I think Leonard won it solid personally but that card's pretty out there.
Adalaide Byrd 118-110 for Canelo over GGG? Hundreds and hundreds of bouts under her belt.

That's just a scratch. ESB scorecards have been more evenly balanced than many of the officials on the fights we score. There's some excellent scorers in here.

 

Hell, I wouldn't be shocked the very best of Duran couldn't beat Hopkins, who in my opinion is almost as overrated as Mayweather Jr.

 

Duràns brilliant ability of slipping and countering would confuse a novice ( In comparison to Duran)
Like JT
As it did to Marvin Hagler early in their fight.
Imagine how quickly Taylor would get a little gun shy when a counter from Duran comes over his sometimes lazy jab.
Or Duran beats him to the punch consistently.
If Duran is at his best at the weight, (Marvin Hagler fight)
I like his chances of getting a dec. Because if the fight is close, Duran going to get the decision.
It's human nature, the little old guy , beating the big, young, strong guy.
The entire audience would be on his side as the fight goes on. That of course would influence the judges.
Duràn would get the victory

 

And yet there you are posting a score from Dan Rafael, a notoriously bad scorer, and various guys from The Ring with comically wide scorecards. My memory isn't too good, but I could've sworn that Hopkins was a partner with Goldenboy and they were on the verge of buying The Ring when this fight happened.

 

I'm posting the worst of the worst scorecards, you know, from guys that were trained and paid to score. I have no idea about Hopkins/Goldenboy/Ring.

The list of outlier terrible scorecards are endless and date back decades prior to Hopkins and co even fighting.

The fact is paid guys are notoriously inconsistent and it's been proven thru time again and again and again.

There's no argument against it. Trying to fob this off with excuses, theories and other claims does nothing.

 

You did not answer my question.

 

noneck already posted it, do you need to see it twice?

Lets factor it into the boxrec list.

Added to the below it makes the cards in Hopkins favor 17 for Hopkins, 3 for Taylor and 2 draws. 17-3 for Hopkins.

Incidentally you scored the Tiberi whooping for Toney which kills all respectability for your cards. There's no way possible one can score that for Toney.



Fight 1 - People that actually get paid to score fights had it 17 for Hopkins, 3 for Taylor, and two draws. Look at all those cards having Hopkins 116-112 or even 117-111. You are actually right, this fight wasn't that close lol.

• Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: 114-114 Draw
• Dan Rafael, ESPN: 114-114 Draw
• TheSweetScience.com: 117-111 Taylor
• Harold Lederman, HBO: 115-113 Taylor
• Kevin Iole, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 115-113 Hopkins
• Max Kellerman, HBO: 115-113 Hopkins
• Michael Katz, Reuters: 115-113 Hopkins
• Paul Upham, SecondsOut.com: 115-113 Hopkins
• Associated Press: 114-113 Hopkins
• Ramiro Gonzalez, La Opinion: 116-112 Hopkins
• Doug Fischer, MaxBoxing.com: 116-112 Hopkins
• David Mayo, Grand Rapids Press: 116-112 Hopkins
• Keith Idec, New Jersey Herald-News: 116-112 Hopkins
• David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: 116-112 Hopkins
• Tim Smith, New York Daily News: 116-112 Hopkins
• Ron Borges,Boston Globe: 116-112 Hopkins
• Joe Santoloquito, The Ring Magazine: 116-113 Hopkins
• Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: 117-111 Hopkins
• Franklin McNeil, Newark Star-Ledger: 117-111 Hopkins
• Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: 117-111 Hopkins
• Ivan Goldman, The Ring Magazine: 117-111 Hopkins

 

And what is your credibility? You are known as a huge Hopkins fan showing bias in just about every Hopkins thread.


You are overstating your case.

Journalists do not get paid to score fights and also some of them have long standing relationship with Hopkins. There is a conflict of interest there. Some of these scorecards also seem to be ridiculously wide further supporting a potential bias there.

You were also referring to both Taylor fights. Yet you only post score card for the first fight. The second fight was scored by the officials as a UD.

They were close fights. I never disputed that despite of you accusations. Hopkins started too late in both fights. The best he could get was a draw IMO.

 

I'll back my cards against yours any day. I've done quite a few cards in here. How many cards have you done?

The second fight didn't have a list of cards.

Lets do our RBR in the Hopkins - Taylor then do one for Tiberi - Toney in coming days.

 

If Duran comes fit and prepared, he has an excellent chance. Other than being physically gifted, Taylor just wasn't very good. Really just a basic fighter with decent fundamentals. He is bigger, but, not better than the Davey Moore that Duran destroyed. He is nowhere near as tough or durable as the Barkley that Duran beat. And, Taylor has one of the worst boxing IQ's for a champion in recent memory. If Duran's skills could trouble the great Marvin Hagler, they would certainly trouble the far inferior Taylor.