Thomas Hearns VS Pipino Cuevas

Not often brought up about this fight, although it was discussed at the time, was that the canvas was very slick — like fighting on ice.

You can see it in this fight and in the Randall Cobb-Earnie Shavers undercard fight. The humidity created a layer of condensation on the type canvas that was used that made footing difficult.

Thomas Hearns wore rubber-soled shoes (Manny Steward talked openly about this, and was prepared for it because Hearns was fighting at home in Detroit so he knew this could be an issue) that allowed traction whereas Pipino wore his usual leather-soled shoes that resulted in inability to get traction.

Not saying Pipino would have won, but conditions favored Hears who had the inside edge of the training knowing this would be the case and having his fighter’s equipment adjusted to the conditions.

I’d like to see if it was any different if they had fought in, say, Las Vegas under regular ring conditions. Hearns probably has too many physical advantages, but Pipino could break bones if he was able to plant and launch so you never know.

 

Well there's no question that if Pipino had landed on Tommy he'd fall like a house of cards

 

Manny said the game plan was to go balls-out for the KO the first three rounds, box Pipino for the next three and go for the KO in rounds 7-9.

Someone asked what the plan was for 10-15. Steward said there was no plan — no way the fight was going that long before one of them knocked out the other, haha.

 

That fight was decided barely 10 seconds after it began, when Hearns landed that left hook that knocked Cuevas back on his heels. From that point forward, Cuevas was on the back foot & never really committed to imposing his fight.

 

That night, Cuevas did not stand a chance.

 

Honestly, rubber soles or leather soles were not going to make a difference IMO.

Tommy had a 8" reach advantage and that is all we need to know.

Sure Pipino was a brave fighter with a murderous punch; but he was badly outranged, so in order to reach Hearns he had to cross those 8" of hellish No man's land... and that was it.

 

Perhaps, but if Pipino could turn it with one punch if he broke through. Maybe he doesn’t ever get the hook in anyway, but … maybe he does.

Interesting that nobody ever brings this up with Hearns/Manny — having and exploiting an environmental advantage and using it. I wonder how that’s different to people who maintain Ray Leonard should be judged for taking advantage of situations or creating advantages for himself: Hagler with ring/glove size and 12 rounds (even though Marvin was 2 1/2 years removed from his last scheduled 15; wanting Duran even though he partied for a while after their first fight rather than accommodating Roberto’s lack of discipline.

Steward could have chosen to put Hearns in leather-soled shoes to keep it even or told Pipino’s camp to go get/bring rubber-soled shoes because the arena in Detroit was known for slick canvases due to humidity — shouldn’t they have wanted to beat Pipino at his best, on ever terms?

Yet that never comes up in discussions about Hearns or Manny.

 

Do you reaaly mean that Cuevas needed a babysitter to tell him what shoes to wear.
In Boxing News I read that reporters was wondering why Cuevas did not have any tall sparring partners. Maybe Manny forgot to tell them how tall Tommy was.

 

I’ve never known a boxer to carry various pairs of shoes to a title defense. They might rightfully presume that the canvas upon which they are fighting wouldn’t be like getting footing on an ice rink, given they’d probably not encounter that anywhere in their entire careers.

The question is why didn’t Hearns and Steward want to fight Pipino on fair and even terms and beat him at his best.

You can’t find a thread about Leonard without that kind of thing being asked re: Duran II and Hagler. Two grown-ass men, two seasoned ATGs needed a babysitter to tell them to not party like a rock star and gain a ridiculous amount of weight between fights, or to give up money to instead negotiate for advantages like ring size/more rounds/smaller gloves, respectively?

I’m wondering why that never comes up in discussions about Hearns/Manny seeking an advantage vs Cuevas.

 

This can be said for many of Hearns's opponents.
But that's the issue. Landing on him cleanly.

 

The canvas may have been an issue, but it wasn't
the biggest .
Watch the film, something I saw when watching the
fight live all those years ago.
Cuevas repeatedly missed some whistling hooks,
that if they landed, Hearns may have been launched
into space.
Hearns's reach and height advantages were so crucial,
the only defensive move he had to make , was simply lean
back a little, and Cuevas would completely miss , meanwhile,
he was in perfect position to use his entire arsenal.
Hearns was a complete freak of nature at welterweight.
A combination of height and reach advantages, plus
speed ,power , and skills that would completely
overwhelm, all but two welters / Jr. Middles
in history in my opinion.
Hearns and Cuevas could've fought in Mexico city
in a ring perfectly suited for leather shoes and it
wouldn't have made much of a difference.

 

Cuevas had never fought in LV or "under regular ring conditions," his whole career was spent fighting on wet & humid surfaces in mexico & cali.

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"Yet that never comes up in discussions about Hearns"

Maybe because Tommy won in such a commanding fashion as to make the point moot?
Leather or rubber soles, fact is Tommy sent Pipino to the moon with a one way ticket.

Revisionist analysis is fun up to a point, with lots of controvertial cases and we could go back all the way to Ali's loose ropes in Kinhasa and wonder "What if?".

But in the case of Hearns - Pipino the "What if?" doesnt carry a lot of water IMO.

 

Do you realize that very probably Hearns/Steward were not even aware about the slick canvas being an issue for Pipino?

Chances are they didnt even think about it; and even if they thought about it, probably assumed Pipino's team was aware of the slick canvass.

Ultimately it was not their responsability to make sure Pipino had the right gear or not. That was Pipino's team responsability.
It is like an outdoor football game; there is a chance there will be rainy weather. It is not my job to warn the other team: "Hey kids, bring your isolating equipment because maybe it is going to be rainy".

If anything, it was a failure on Pipino's team for not making sure he had the right gear.

"What if?" topics are usually fun, but honestly in this case it already goes too far into conspiracy territory.
I can hardly imagine Manny and Tommy highfiving each other and saying "Our plan with the slippery canvass worked to a charm, Pipino is toast!"