Absolutely. And, IIRC, it was a single left hook (or what whatever you want to call that strange punch that Joe threw so often to great effect - ) that actually first caused Ali’s knees to buckle badly, starting him into the rockiest round of his career. Ironically, it seemed that Ali’s unsteady legs and random, difficult to track teetering around the ring thereafter actually made it that bit more difficult for Joe to follow up on him.
I’m sure it was still here until quite recently, sometimes the emojis get shifted along and out of their old positions.
When I read this thread, the 1st thing that came to mind was the Thrilla in Manila and what they did to each other.
Frazier is a consensus top ten heavyweight all time great. Just a friendly reminder consensus doesn't mean universal.
Frazier rejected being called a Black Marciano,he considered himself superior to Rocky and said he himself was more like a bigger edition of Armstrong . Marciano has two things going for him over Frazier,imo more power and two fisted power.Frazier is better at everything else imo speed,accuracy,balance, cut resistance.
We all have our opinions and one is as valid as the next. Both Frazier and Marciano were once in my ten,they no longer are ,which probably puts me out there on my own.
I don’t care, he fell short of Marciano and way, way short of Armstrong if we are talking about skills here - seriously he’s not in the same realm or species of boxer as Armstrong.
Im just rewatching the BBC 8 part documentary Ali. Joe's class,dignity and thorough decency comes through. He seemed to know about Ali at that time of his life calling him a 'phony' . Sadly the bitterness Joe developed around the millennium is overinflated and the beatings by Foreman exaggerated. Joe Frazier is now criminally underrated.He is the most underrated heavyweight in history. Yet only 1 man conquered him. George Foreman. Foreman who retired in late 1998 still the true linear champion. Frazier due to his affiliation with Eddie Futch wasnt allowed to fight Kenny Norton or Larry Holmes. I feel.prime Joe beats both. He had a quite short career and prime. Working in the Southern heat and its cotton fields at 13. Working 10 hour days in a meat packing factory...running 4.5 miles each morning before work sparring after. Only taking up boxing ik 1962. Olympic Champ 2 years later. Joe did everything the hard way. After the fight of the century I think he was physically and mentally done . He had conquered the mountain. Everything he did after was just his immense personal pride. He didn't really invest in his career and improving after that. I would've loved to see him fight Liston in 69 or 70 if Sonny had lived and fight Patterson too. Head 2 Head prime at HW I have Foreman number 4. H2H or legacy Joe is in my top ten. All along he was just physically natural . On Superstars Joe struggled to press 77kg. Im 49 and still press 117.5kg. Imagine if Joe had done weights how much his physical attributes would've improved. What if he fought full sighted? What could he have done as a true pro without the physical wear and tear of working on cotton plantations as a 12 year old? The one blot in his record is the inexplicable one handed nature after FOTC....he surely could throw a right hand
Frazier is a top five pound for pound all time heavyweight. His heart and stamina matched anyones. He fought his whole career with one eye. Fighter's know who were great fighters and Frazier receives top respect from all of them ... Ali, Foreman, Norton, Holmes, Lyle, Foster ... the list goers on and on ...
Futch was never involved with Holmes until 1981. Futch had split with Norton before he fought Foreman. The parting wasn't overly amicable as he relocated to concentrate on Frazier. Frazier fought Ali twice after this among numerous other bouts. The Futch affiliation didn't affect the prospect of either bout. I agree he beats both and that he is becoming underrated.