Were does Usyk rank P4P all time?

I wonder if we will see Ngannou box again. Probably.

 

And yet you have no counter argument.

Answer the question would Ali still be the number 1 Heavyweight without any amateur credentials yes or no ?

And I think the obvious answer is yes meaning amateur achievements have no barring on your all time P4P rankings.

Roberto Duran is a perfect case of having no real stand out amateur background but he's considered a top 10 fighter of all time based on what he did in his professional career.

Duran doesn't get penalised for a lack of a amateur career and even if he did have an extensive amateur career it would make no difference to his all time ranking.

 

Many criticize the low number of fights usyk had and neglect to see the average level of those opponents.

Usyk very early fought a level of opponent Wilder would see for the first time after about 40 fights.

And while the old time fighter had amazing fights a lot of them also fought once or twice a month against people working normal jobs to arrive at their 150 fight winning streaks (obviously mixing in some monster opponents, too). For Joe Louis they coined the term 'bum of the month club' to describe his opponents. And he was an amazing fighter.

What I am arguing for is to not look at the total number of fights but at the number of meaningful fights. With this view, you have to take away at least 20-25 fights from basically all fighters (it will be more for most). Only these few modern coming-late-from-the-amateurs fighters have almost exclusively relevant opponents because they instantly mix it up. Noone ever more so than Lomachenko.

 

And that is up to you. If he gets a third title, or even just beats Joshua, his reputation will grow over time.

 

Joshua hasn't scored a win of note in years and was decisively kayoed in his last fight. Given his recent form I don't see how beating him would be to Furys credit. He needs to bounce back with wins over top contenders

 

Robinson, Leonard, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Armstrong, Ali, Duran, Moore, Charles, Pep, Whitaker, Delahoya, Roy, Ross, Hopkins, Chavez, Arguello, Olivares, Williams etc etc are all greater than this guy and obviously. This poll is crazy.

 

Top 30 close to Roy Jones’ level.

 

He's still a top contender, and his name still has value.

 

Exactly. Usyk is the epitome of the word GREAT. A guy that waits out fighters primes and hot streaks while bitching about “Makin da sport of boxing clean” while getting caught with an iv before his biggest fight… isn’t in that category. Not to mention fighting an MMA guy with a 0-0-0 pro boxing record while acting like that W moved him past Marciano in ANY way…

 

Since he is a work in progress, it's too early to say.

I made a list of my top 25 for @Rumsfeld about five years ago.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Roberto Duran
6. Hank Armstrong
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Willie Pep
9. Joe Louis
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Roy Jones Junior
12. Joe Gans
13. Sugar Ray Leonard
14. Floyd Mayweather
15. Manny Pacquaio
16. Archie Moore
17. Mickey Walker
18. Pernell Whittaker
19. Packy McFarland
20. Rocky Marciano
21. Barney Ross
22. Marvin Hagler
23. Jimmy Wilde
24. Tommy Hearns
25. Gene Tunney


I won't place him on the list just yet.

However, if he makes one or two more decent defences, and retires hiving unified two divisions, beating the second and third best (twice in some cases) to get there, and is acknowledged as the clear best of his era in two divisions, then he would definitely crack my top 25, probably somewhere round the middle or higher.

 

Top 50.

 

That's actually a fantastic list mate
I love Roy jones, but I think he should be a little lower. However, if we ignore the move back to lhw, then yes I can see how he falls close to top 10

I'm biased to mclarnin being Irish, so would fit him in. That's a good list

Truth be told, I don't begrudge anyone having usyk top 20. I just think he needs more to really be among the likes of Ali, Leonard, Duran, Robinson, Louis etc

 

Cool so if he can beat Dubois and Parker you might have him in the top 10.

 

That's a pretty good list mate I have trouble listing fighters in order because there's so many different criteria's but your top 10 would be similar to mine.

The thing is you have other greats like Alexis Arguello, Bernard Hopkins, etc who would probably be in the top 50 somewhere ? Has Usyk overtook them for world title wins or notable victories ? For me no.

So I'd put Usyk somewhere in the top 50 but I don't think he's anywhere close to the top 10 like some people proclaim here.

 

I have him somewhere between 30-50 and have no issues with him being top 20. It's a little high for me, but I can see it. I just don't think he has the body of work, or great wins to be top 10. If he lived in the times of Ali and beat those guys then yes, but the quality is a little low, just my opinion

Ali had 2 hof careers, one before and post exile

Joe Louis has had 25 defences of the undisputed title and reigned for 12 years.

I just can't put usyk among those guys. All trolling aside, he's an ATG and is the best heavyweight now, but I can't have him among the best 10 boxers ever. I don't think I'd put manny or Floyd there either. More like 12-15 all time

It's all just opinions