Were does Usyk rank P4P all time?

Re: Roy.


Had he retired after defeating Ruiz, I would probably have him in the top five.

 

I'd probably agree to be fair. Around the turn of the century I thought he was the heir to Ray Robinson

 

Usyk is the best fighter of the last 25 years IMO.

 

This has to be a joke man

 

Cunningham who wouldn't even be ranked as a top 100 Heavyweight.

Wallin who got destroyed by Joshua and lost every round to an ancient Chisora in a abysmal performance I'd class Wallin as a B class Heavyweight.

Chisora fringe contender with 13 losses.

Whyte solid name but was already shopworn from all the tough fights and had already suffered 2 brutal KO losses. Again Whyte has also done nothing of note since losing to Fury which indicates he was shopworn coming into the Fury fight.

Definitely not legacy defining fights not even close.

 

Chisora compares favorably to most of Holmes' title defenses.

 

I guarantee there are 10 guys on his resume that would beat Chisora like the 10+ people who already did

 

Cunningham should have been ranked but was robbed against Glazkov.

Wallin has been ranked and has decent wins against Breazele and Gassiev.

Chisora has been a contender for something like 12 years now and has beaten a number of contenders.

Whyte needs no defense.

They are all good names for the lower end of a top ten, and Chisora particularly compares favorably to most of Larry Holmes' defenses.

 

Chisoras pretty overrated by a select few here, he got a lot of opportunities which should shoeshine any contenders record especially someone with dog like Chisora, yet Derek has double digit losses, has looked crap and very beatable in so many fights and his best wins are Takam and a shot Joyce. This era isn't more talented than the Klitschko era bar Usyk. The talent of a poor time like the 80s is very underrated in comparison

I can see someone as talentless as Berbick dominating him. Chisora might get done in by Evangelista and Weaver, an old journeyman Washington almost got it done

 

If you look with honesty at even the titlists Holmes beat, most do not have as many good wins as Chisora.

 

I can name several who are better. Chisora is comparable to Mike Weaver and Bert Cooper historically. Chisora fought everyone because he was always a gatekeeper and lost almost all the world level fights, revisionism isn't going to work on me. Joyce is overrated as hell and a shot Chisora being competitive with the top 10 gives great insight depth of talent available. You suggested Joyce could fight someone like Bowe lol should I even take this discussion seriously ?

 

Yes, you can name several, which is why I said MOST.

Holmes had 20 defenses, and there are few names in them that had Chisora's depth.

 

Wallin, Cunningham, are not good names at all.

Cunningham went 5-5 at Heavyweight and as I said he wouldn't even be ranked as a top 100 Heavyweight. Glazkov was after the Fury fight and Glazkov got stopped in 3 rounds by one of the worst belt holders in history Charles Martin.

Wallin was a total nobody when he fought Fury and with hindsight the struggle Fury had vs him looks even worse he's no better than a B class Heavyweight.

Chisora compares favourably to most of Holmes's opposition ? Chisora has never been ranked in the top 10 Witherspoon, Cooney, Weaver, Norton, Mercer, Berbick, Shavers, Bonecrusher, are better names.

Remember Chisora would be considered a top 5 win for Fury and if you listed Fury's top 10 wins Chisora would be in 3 out of the top 10 which shows he has a very thin resume.

Holmes beat 8 fighters who held world titles at Heavyweight and overall fought 12 fighters who held world titles at Heavyweight

In comparison Fury has only beaten 2 fighters who held world titles one of them Wladimir right at the end of his career. And has only overall fought 3 fighters who held world titles.

 

I have no problem with him as a poster, but he wasn't rating them very highly before usyk fought Fury, when he continually blasted Fury and his resume along with every other hater.

Everyone has a go at me for being hypocrite, because I picked fury to win and now I say he wasn't that great. I did think Fury would win, but I never, ever thought he was great (like Ali, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, Holmes, Foreman)

All these guys want Fury to be a titan, because it is Usyk's biggest win(s) and they want to boost his resume.

Fury went life and death with a limited Wilder 2 from 3 fights and his only other top win since then was a Dillian Whyte who already had his chin cracked by Povekin and where is whyte now?

Can't count Chisora as a great win, as he already handled him twice and it was a cherry pick. Chisora hanging around top 10 says it all about the division right now

Let's just all stop beating around the bush

The fury wins are very good for usyk. He became the first undisputed champ in 25 years and came up from CW. It is a great achievement. But Fury arguably lost to a guy making his debut just the fight prior and has maybe had 2 top fighters on his resume since beating Wlad many years ago.

Beating this Fury is not like ali beating Foreman, or Foreman beating Frazier, or even Tyson dismantling Spinks in 91 seconds. Or how about Spinks handing Holmes his first loss?

Great things have happened before in the sport.

Usyk is a great fighter, you don't need to now all of a sudden boost Fury to hype usyk, when you all said he was shyte 2 years ago

 

I've never seen the hype with Fury honestly and i've been critical about him since even before the Usyk fights

I wasn't impressed with the Wladimir fight for me that was one of the worst Heavyweight title fights in history, and Fury /Wladimir only landed 86 and 52 punches in 12 rounds of fighting which is abysmal.

Yeah it's a good win in context due to Wladimir's name but Wladimir was also an aging champion at this point at the end of his career and it was a god awful fight.

The Wilder trilogy was entertaining i can't deny that but Fury still showed alot of weaknesses in that series getting dropped 4 times by a fighter with limited skill set. Yes i know Wilder is a big puncher and i do give Wilder credit for his punching power, but if Fury is supposed to be as good as people claim then he shouldn't be struggling as much that.

Whyte is a solid win he was ranked quite highly at the time but Whyte was also shopworn from all the tough fights he had and he'd suffered two brutal KO losses already. Whyte during this time was taking on quite alot of banana skin fights trying to get a shot at Wilder at the time i believe ? he got offered an olive branch by Fury so he took that fight instead. But i think all those fights took it out of him and he considering he's done nothing of note since seems to suggest that.

Beating Chisora is an ok win but my issue why did he have to fight the same fighter 3 times he'd already beaten twice before convincingly ? imagine any established champion in history defending his title against a fighter he'd already beaten twice before when they were an upcoming contender ? that literally makes no sense. Beating Chisora twice i have no issue with as Fury was still a contender at that point but when half of his top 10 wins include 3 wins over Chisora....that shows he has quite a thin resume.

In 2022 Fury could've fought Ortiz, Sanchez, Parker, Hrgovic, Ruiz, Joyce, Joshua, all of these fighters were ranked in the top 10 at the time i believe but no Fury instead fought Chisora for a 3rd time who was 1-3 in his last 4 fights.

All in all despite Fury not facing that many top contenders he's been floored almost 10 times and has looked beatable in a handful of fights. Yes he's a talented big man but his H2H capabilities were way overestimated and his resume is paper thin.