One of the most replaceable HW champs? Sonny Liston?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Journeyman92, May 22, 2025.


  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    For one, we know Machen would run circles around him, given Lyle's inability to deal with slicksters.
     
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  2. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Get James Toney in there and he cleans it up without any issues and gets a nice burger afterwards
     
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  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Luis Ortiz rolls through them easily and does way better against Ali.
     
  4. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Let’s spark some debate here @Rollin agree or disagree? Or are you just an idle fence sitter that ducks everybody? Ortiz would you’re right could absolutely roll through Listons opposition - What do you think of Corrie Sanders? I think he could do a Blitzkreig year and get Machen, Folley, Williams and Patterson in 12 months if it works out for him, the version of Machen Liston fought only used his left hand so the only potential bump in the road is handicapped.
     
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  5. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If Ortiz turned pro earlier how do you think he does? I thought he was just a bit too old when he actually did.
     
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  6. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Not a bad pick, I can’t really see a one armed Machen winning or a glass chinned Folley, Williams and Patterson going 10-12 without being “touched” once.
     
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  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    I know you set the stage for guys like Hannover Sanders and Tokyo Douglas to show up every night, but Ortiz was consistent enough to not need any of that. Guys routinely went into survival mode against Ortiz who were otherwise game. That's why I named him.

    Sanders would definitely have the potential to beat everyone with brutal knvokouts and landslide victories too, but he did hang his chin out to dry even if you take away his inconsistent conditioning, so it's less of a sure thing. The one guy who would have the best chance from back then of chinning Sanders (not counting Liston and Ali) would pretty obviously be Ingo and Liston never fought him.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2025
  8. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Nah not even in my opinion :lol: “Big” James probably losses to Patterson and Machen, Machen may have had one hand when he fought Liston but you don’t beat JT with rights anyway… I will say he could GET to the title, Machen may prove to lose but I think he losses to Patterson, maybe let him fight Ingo and he’d win the title in devastating fashion.
     
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  9. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Oh ho ho
    This content is protected
     
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  10. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A 6-4, 240 pound southpaw in the 50s-60s? Nobody would fight him...I couldn't imagine Ortiz having a problem with Folley, Machen, Patterson, Harris, Cooper, Chuvalo, London, etc. Ali had some problems with Mildenberger, a much smaller southpaw without Ortiz's amateur pedigree. If, Ali fought Ortiz, he would be the best opponent by far that Ali fought in the 60s.
     
  11. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    I actually agree, I don’t think Ortiz would meet much push back from any of Liston’s opposition he’d have them all by 30-50lbs which wouldn’t hurt, he’d be a thumping southpaw with good fundamentals - Machen is teeny with one hand here, Folley also teeny and had a glass chin, Patterson more teeny had a glass chin, Williams mid sized with a glass chin… they all had a way of doing themselves in I’d say that’s a great pick.
     
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  12. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Would love to see it though I think he has a chance if slight especially since he's taking on guys his size more or less rather then the actual modern heavyweights he was taking on.
     
  13. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Actually funnily enough a lot of the “weak” HW era fighters Sanders, Ortiz, Vitali, Ruiz Jnr, Whyte, Wilder and Povetkin would all be really good picks for this question? @cross_trainer I could easily see say Buster Douglas doing this but not say as confidently for Ken Norton, Buster Mathis Snr, Jerry Quarry, Cockell, Layne, LaStraza etc I think MAYBE Jersey Joe Walcott could be a man on a mission here?
     
  14. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    JT was always a 180lbs-190lbs guy at heart and a former football player, he’d be a big LHW come HW back then IMO that is without all the weight manipulation he went through, so I can see your point.
     
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  15. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Not sure how serious you are, you’re probably not lol… Machen probably gets him but he could maybe get Williams, Patterson and Zora 3/4 for me but they’re all 50-50 in my head I don’t like that gamble.
     
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