Oleksandr Usyk is clearly the best fighter of the 21st century uncontested.

He’s the best heavyweight since Wlad an Vitali were in charge of the division

 

To me, best since Lewis. Some people really like those long title reigns like Wladdy had, but the big challenges just weren't there in my book for the brothers K.

 

Yeah but I was thinking more of best as in h2h matchups. You can’t knock Usyk cos he’s the only one that still unbeaten but my money would be on both bros getting the win over him in any matchup but I guess you could argue a case for Usyk to come out on top of both bros as well. No diddy

 

I see Usyk beating either, based on the fact that he has demonstrably beaten guys better than their best, but certainly better than Ross Purity, Chris Byrd, Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster.

But I get it. H2H is all hypothetical, and they were capable of looking very good on the high end.

 

There are a number of guys from this era who I would favor over old Wlad and Wilder. So for me they are not great wins in the context of this era. I think Parker and Zhang could beat any version of Wilder so no I'm obviously not impressed with Fury's win. And given Wlad's age and failure to bounce back that win doesn't do much for me either. Obviously the Joshua loss is relevant, it doesn't become irrelevant because you say so.

As far as size goes, we have to see Fury against talented smaller guys to know if beating him as a much smaller man is actually a difficult feat. Fury beating Povetkin, Kabayel, etc would suggest it was. Regardless of how you rate them they are the best smaller heavies of this era besides Usyk himself

 

I'm not sure he definitely beats both, he is more skilled and as you say probably beat tougher challenges. But as much as I find wlad overrated and boring, I can't put usyk over him as a hw. He doesn't have the numbers

Although I troll wlad fans, I do actually think the prime version would beat olek.

 

I agree 100% it is a matter of perspective. The brothers K were big, natural heavies, and when they were on, they were on. I personally just like the guy who won fights he should have lost over the guys who lost fights they should have won. But yeah, head to head, either way.

 

Might favour usyk, not sure
I rate vitali over Wladimir, but actually think usyk would outgoing him easier, than the more athletic, safety first puncher in wlad

I am a little sore on wlad, but I do actually rate him

Anyway, it's just hypothetical nonsense, usyk needs to beat Dubois again and that's his priority

 

Chisora win over Wilder?

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No, I'm ignoring your criteria because they're dumb and irrelevant. Fury didn't lose to a bunch of smaller cruiserweight fighters, he beat them. Had he lost, you might actual have a valid point. Fury was in fact undefeated when Usyk beat him, which is one of several reasons Usyk should be given huge credit.

No one said Wilder was skilled, but he was still an undefeated, tall, athletic undefeated world champion. He is also dangerous not because of skill, but because he is quite possibly the hardest hitter of all time. The fact Fury nearly got KOd the previous fight and made adjustments to dominate Wilder is proof Fury is a good fighter.

Lol, no one but Ali was calling him the best ever after the Liston win. People were questioning those wins and refused to give him credit, hell to this day people question them. You have no idea WTF you're talking about. Do some research.

I didn't ask you to name me several cruiserweights or Heavyweights who you "think" could beat Fury. I asked you to name me some cruise weights or heavyweights who pulled off something similar to Usyk: beating a much heavier, taller, undefeated champion. Does this happen a lot, yes or no? I'm not going to ask you again.

It's not common to see cruiserweights in general have success at heavyweight. They usually get demolished, let alone become undisputed and have a hall of fame worthy career like Holyfield and Usyk.

 

I don't give a **** about who you "think" could have beaten Fury or Wilder. That's irrelevant when evaluating historical rankings.

So, this is the 5th time you straight up either ignored what I was saying or changed the topic to create your own debate, so have fun talking to yourself. You're on my ignore list.

 

And how great is Cunningham again ? Is he better than someone like Briedis or Haye ? No. If you take a look at Furys opposition from 2018 all the way to 2023 it doesn't take a genius to see such an undefeated streak is very substandard and nothing to write home about. A bunch of bums and Wilder who is also a fringe contender in disguise

So we admit Wilder has LOW skill by any mesurable margin. Wilder fought none of the top contenders but a geatric Ortiz and who was 3 years older than when he beat Jennings, and Ortiz was already 36 then. Notice Ortiz schooled him both fights but his old ass reflexes failed him and got unfairly treated as Wilder was given extra time to recover from a salvo of big shots. Bum Stiverne too ? You bring up Wilders reign but his reign over who ? He fought nobody and got smashed around post Fury trilogy. Zhang was older than Wilder and still sent him to the morgue. Wilder to put on bambi legs by shot journeyman Molina. You're quite lucky Wilder didn't face stiffer competition or I wouldn't have to go out of my way to expose the overhyped belt warmer. Many unknown Journeyman probably hit harder than known big punchers btw, I think you know this and have acknowledged this.

Uncommon ≠ Special, but Usyks win is very impressive, i just don't see it being atg worthy when Fury admittedly struggles with faster smaller guys, his opposition post retiremnt is trash in retrospect and the win won't age well. Fury being undefeated as one of the main attributes to the claim is already a slippery slope when Fury right before Usyk robbed a 37 year old Ngannou in the eyes of a vast number of sports fans and a large chunk of pure boxing fans go check out the reactions. Fury wasn't the one who got the knockdown in the close fight. Most thought Mcdermott beat him, and Furys reluctance to fight actual challenges and contenders instead of geatric Chisora, old UFC fighter Ngannou, Wallin, Seferi, Pianeta and bum Schwartz and still looking like absolute crap in 2 of those fights is a testament to how overrated he is historically and that will not be swept inder the rug in evaluating Usyks win. You will, i wont.

Like I said, had Fury dominated a mediocre cruiserweight like Cunningham then we would know Usyks achievement was rigorous, especially since we already knew he could beat super heavyweights like Joshua and Chisora. But he didn’t. Cunningham was his hardest fight verbatim and Fury listed Cunninghams agility and small hitbox as the main reasons it was so difficult, and there are a lot of better cruiserweights than Cunningham besides Usyk.

Haye beat valuev who isn't as good as Fury but much much bigger. Byrd beating Vitali and Klitschko doesn't get flatlined by feather fists. Hunter took Bakoles 0. Spinks vs Holmes, that was a decent size difference, but that win is actually much better. Dempsey smashed Wilard in a horrific beating and he was smaller than Usyk. Norris vs Tucker. Mike Tysons whole career, etc. Etc. None of these wins are obviously not great but even Holyfields win over Bowe which is the closest is not a certified atg win, just an elite win and Bowe used his physicality more.

 

Chisora has been fighting ranked opposition for many years. Sometimes winning, others losing, but yes I rate him higher than Wilder and think he'd beat the fraud

Whyte also beats Wilder. Wilder is a fraud and has been exposed his last 2 fights. With him being exposed and usyk showing Fury levels, it doesn't look good for Fury all time

 

Wilder had the Punch that was it

But with Fury he is class when he wants to be he had Usyk in fight one but didnt take it seriously and it bit him on the arse

But lets be honest the heavyweight divison has been **** since Tyson Lewis Holyfield