People bringing up Josh Taylor beating Ugas in sparring haha Spence beat up Mayweather in sparring like what does that matter
Yeah he was, but I would also wager he was a way worse alcoholic than Taylor too. Taylor was just always overrated. He had the physical advantage and ability to go down to 140.
The new era 4 belt undisputed runs has been vastly overrated. The only one that really been great we’re Usyk’s CW & HW feat. All the others were not as impressive in hindsight.
Taylor and Spence are a similar size, Taylor always belonged at welterweight but boiled down. His resume aged like crap too. It's crazy all the hate Spence gets, calling him a hypejob when he would've dominated a prime Taylor had Taylor fought at his natural weight, and at least he beat up Mikey Garcia, while Taylor lost to Teo badly. I honestly think half the reason people crap on Spence is to crap in Crawfords record imo Taylor is past his prime and credit to his accolates he was always a solid champion, but honestly he was overrated
It's odd that you call a guy overrated, watch him become undisputed, then wait for him to become shot to criticize again. After the first Catterall match, I honestly haven’t seen much overrating of Taylor.
Nothing odd about it. When you have a fighter who you think is overrated like Taylor and your opinion is the minority view on here and then your opinion is proven to be true and the majority come to seeing your side of things, it's pretty normal to once again state your views and get that vindication. As someone who was in the minority regarding Taylor, there were other people on here saying Taylor was overrated. There were not many of us, but there were a few of us here. We were just drowned out by the majority who thought Taylor was something special. Some Taylor fans might not like it, I get it, he didn't live up to their expectations but instead of feeling butt hurt, learn from it. Taylor was an entertaining fighter to watch and how he went for the best fights at 140 to unify and become undisputed was impressive. But all that didn't alter the fact that 140 was one of the worst divisions in boxing at the time. And technically he had some glaring holes in his game and relied on his size to grind down smaller men on the inside as he was not a good fighter from long range which for a tall fighter is usually a big red flag that at some point they will get exposed. People criticise Inoue's competition, but Fulton is a level above anyone Taylor has beaten. Yet you couldn't criticise Taylor's opposition. Hell I'd argue Fulton might be P4P better than Taylor himself, he was a unified champion at 122 and I think was the best at 122 before Inoue moved up and could have become undisputed had he be given the opportunity too before Inoue and has now won a title at 126 when he moved up, something Taylor couldn't do.
Word on the street is that after reading @Serge posts on this thread Spence drove his car straight into a wall.
Spence is and always was a massive hype job. CBS and ESPN had him ranked above Usyk P4P for goodness sake when Usyk was an undisputed CW champion and held 3 of the 4 belts at HW and like I said many fans had him ranked P4P #1 or #2 for a long time. He'd been ranked in the P4P top 10 by The Ring ever since beating Brook, almost consistently IIRC How the hell do you only fight 2 career world champions in your entire career, barely fight any punchers, especially ones your size, and only fight one career 147 world champion during your entire six year reign? This was no accident it was by design. It's tried and tested pure PBC/Showtime smoke and mirrors to dupe the casuals. The only 2 career 147 pounder world champions he fought in his entire career are Brook and Porter and, as said, he struggled badly against both. Brook was damaged goods and was coming off a stoppage loss, a bad beating up at 160 after bulking up to fight up there, back down in weight, and a broken orbital socket and gruesome surgery to repair it which entailed having his eyeball removed via his mouth. His surgeon told him that one more punch could've blinded him and he had no idea if he would be able to box again, if he would even be able to see out of the eye properly ever again, and he went through a deep depression. Go read up about the psychological trauma he endured during that time. Then fast forward to the Spence fight where after holding his own or more than holding it he suffered the exact same injury to his other eye after Spence's forehead shattered his orbital socket in round 8 just eight months later. His surgeon was actually sitting ringside for the Spence fight and Brook said he was shaking his head at him after clocking the eye injury. That injury clearly completely changed the complexion of the fight after the ghosts of the psychological trauma retuned to haunt him knowing that he once again risked blindness and would likely have to go through that whole hell once again I really like Brook but let's be honest who did a prime healthy version ever actually beat? A MD over Shawn Porter who loses to damn near everyone his size at the elite level and Brook held an awful lot in that fight. Brook also lost the first fight against Carson Jones (RIP) in many people's eyes and he was damaged goods after GGG broke his face. I told you all for years Spence had a weak chin, that I didn't like the way he reacted to getting hit, and that he would get knocked out when he fought a world class fighter his size who was a legit puncher. I told you Super Boots would've smoked him early. Hell, even Mean Machine would've knocked his ass out. He pulled ouch that really hurt little girl expressions when he got hit. He was doing it throughout the Porter fight everytime the light-punching Porter landed clean. Ugas hurt him badly. Some light-punching African dude hurt him early on in his career. Again, look at the embarrassing KO% of Spence's opponents. This is clearly not a mere coincidence Brook KO 65% Ugas KO 37% career 140 pounder who came up Danny KO 52% career 140 pounder low KO% at 147 Mikey KO 71% blown up 135 pounder whose KO% above 135 = 0 Peterson KO 41% career 140 pounder Algieri KO 31% career 140 pounder Bundu KO 32% Van Heerden KO 36% Ocampo KO 60% even Spence admitted Ocampo had no power Lo Greco KO 47% Porter KO 47% A 7-0 140 pounder Taylor punching a 26-1-1 147 pounder former and future world champion Porter's head in Porter's own gym and dropping and sending Ugas to the hospital with a damaged jaw does not lose to to domestic level EE, let alone a prime version of Taylor I've watched EE a bunch of times and he's either lost or gone life and death a a bunch of times at domestic level. Harry Scarff beat him. Chris Kongo lost a MD. Ditto for Tyrone Nurse. Chris Jenkins was getting the best of him and would've beaten him IMO had he not suffered a broken rib. Ben Vaughan arguably beat him in his previous outing. Good solid fighter, nice guy, but he's domestic level and he's lost, arguably lost, been hurt and dropped, and struggled badly many times at that level Spence allegedly getting the better of Floyd in the gym, and doing so against Broner, is so typical of his career: Beating up on much smaller fighters. Taylor beat up a bigger fighter in Porter in the gym not a smaller one half his size We saw what happened when Spence fought a prime healthy elite fighter who could punch in Crawford. It wasn't even remotely competitive and he got dropped by a freaking jab That's the same Crawford whose best win Postol (arguably) in 41 fights is a fighter a very green untested Taylor beat in just his 13th fight and, as said, Crawford stunk out the joint against a 5lb lighter light-punching Postol. Taylor never run like that against big punchers and KO artists and he legit dropped Postol not dropped him with a flash KDs one of which was a rabbit punch like Crawford did. Crawford doesn't even rate Spence highly for goodness sake and he has often bitterly complained about people criticizing his level of opposition and talked up the quality of his opponents. But here he is talking down his ''best win'' This content is protected /thread Serge destroys
I do agree with you that Spence is overrated However he was a better fighter than Taylor both ability wise and accomplishment wise Spence wins over Porter and Ugas are better than everything Taylor has ever done Taylor went life and death with Regis Prograis Spence has more power, a better body attack, better footwork and defense than Taylor, better jab obviously, controls range better. They're actually very similar in style but Spence is just a better version Especially pre car accident
Yeah, but feelings can trump all that. Taylor is better because it makes me feel good to believe that.
That's a matter of opinion and Taylor was on a much steeper learning curve than Spence. He was a world champion in 15 fights, a unified one in 16, and undisputed in 18 all against prime career 140 pounders, all big or huge punchers. Spence didn't even win a world title until his 21st fight, didn't become a unified champ until his 26th fight or a three-belt unified one until his 28th fight Spence's wins over Porter and Ugas came against two fighters Taylor beat up in sparring when he was a very green 7-0 prospect, one of whom he dropped and sent to the hospital. I don't care if it's sparring he beat both up. Not just one of them but both of them up and he didn't mere just get the better of them he beat them up Rougarou was 24-0 and Taylor was 15-0 and Rougarou is a big puncher and a good fighter. His problem is he cannot deal with backfoot risk averse rangy boxers but Taylor beat him at his own game which is way more risky and more dangerous to do Taylor not only beat a prime JCR in JCR's backyard with a home ref and 3 home judges but he dropped him x 2 and the home refs long counts, especially one of them, arguably saved JCR from a KO loss That wasn't just a world title fight it was for undisputed but they still stacked the deck with a full set of home officials Taylor vs Postol in the UK wasn't even a world title fight but 2 of the judges came from neutral countries Same goes for Taylor vs Martin Taylor vs Baranchyk was a world title fight but all 3 judges were from neutral countries Same goes for Taylor vs Rougarou Spence vs Brook in the UK had an British judge, an American one, and a neutral judge But Taylor had to fight on a stacked deck of a home ref and three home judges vs JCR Spence had more power? Against career 140 pounders and ATG level featherfists and average punchers. Taylor won, unified and defended his world titles against career 140 pounders for the most part, not career 135 pounders, and he fought big punchers who were big punchers at 140 Spence couldn't even drop Ugas with small gloves on, Taylor did it with big ones on He couldn't even drop 135 Mikey Taylor is an excellent body puncher, I think Spence just attacks the body with both hands at a higher rate Taylor broke Kongsong's ribs and allegedly ruptured his spleen with a body shot inside a round Taylor pretty much dropped or hurt everyone he fought prior to facing Catterall JCR is a tough dude who has never been stopped but Taylor dropped him x 2 and had the ref not been counting in slow motion may well have got stopped because he was badly hurt from one of those KDs. Taylor would've dropped Mikey 22 seconds elapses before the action resumes after the KD This content is protected EE says Taylor broke one of his ribs the other night Miguel Vazquez: ‘Josh Taylor is the most powerful opponent I’ve fought’ “It was a unique experience to face such a strong opponent like Taylor and I would be honoured to come back to the UK and fight as many times as I can,” the Mexican said. “He’s a very strong fighter. He has all the tools that a fighter needs.” Of all the opponents he has fought, and that includes a very young Canelo Alvarez, Vazquez says, “Timothy Bradley has been the most outstanding, technically speaking. But the most powerful was actually Josh Taylor.” Rougarou said Taylor is a big puncher Taylor legit dropped Postol, Crawford's KDs against Postol were glove touching the canvas flash KDs and one was a rabbit punch I've been saying for a long time that one of Taylor's biggest problems is mental one and how he boxes tense and isn't relaxed and doesn't put enough thought into what he's doing. When he's relaxed, isn't forcing things, and is being more reactive and picks his shots better and especially counter punches instead of forcing things and loading up he's much better This content is protected
I know that the idea of a middle-ground in this forum where extremes reign is probably not going to go across well, but i think there is a distinct possibility with JT that there are multiple factors at play, and it's not just one of the extremes. + Taylor looked really good on his way up until after the Ramirez fight + Parting company with Shane McGuigan did Taylor no favours and there were even small signs of his regression in the Ramirez fight + How much did achieving Undipsuted go to Taylor's head - I mean it was a meteric rise? The rumours of partying and drinking, not living the life etc + I will admit that I probably did overrate Taylor a bit in terms of eliteness / p4p on his way up due to the manner of his performances + Regardless, the Taylor that fought against Catterall x2 and Lopez was clearly a different fighter than the once who fought to undisputed; it wasn't all JUST that he was overrated IMO, there were outside factors at play. Maybe, just maybe there's probably a middle ground?
Spence stopped Brook and Ugas Knocked Porter down Mikey was just fighting to survive that was a cash out fight Good point about Taylor not being relaxed enough He seemed so tense in this fight