Which of the following”Ali clones” do you think can pull off the upset in 1964?

I sparred one round with a well-past-it Pinklon but he didn’t really nail me with a jab that I recall — he crushed me with a right to the body and right to the jaw right at the end of the round (thought my jaw was broken for several weeks, it would creak like on a hinge and kind of pop when I moved it around, then it went away). But this was a round of light sparring (for him, I probably worked a lot harder than he did haha — best I recall I landed a few good body shots and one southpaw jab that caught him with his eye still open and he blinked a few times, changed expression and there came the big rights lol).

But observationally, Pink had a super hard jab. I don’t think he had the kind of footwork that would puzzle or trouble Sonny, but I agree 1964 Sonny isn’t the Liston of a few years earlier.

Sonny’s record tells us even in his prime that if he didn’t get you by the seventh round, you were probably going the distance. Maybe he didn’t carry his power past that point or maybe he settled in at a certain point and was content with winning the decision if he hadn’t accomplished a stoppage.

His only win by stoppage after round seven was in his final fight, against Wepner, and that was a referee stoppage due to cuts inflicted mostly by Liston’s jab, not power punches rendering Chuck helpless or in trouble.

My guess here is that ‘64 Sonny cannot dent Pinklon’s iron jaw and that the jabs more or less neutralize each other — no advantage either way, although both certainly land their shares. Liston’s body work, especially with the left hook, is the equalizer that gives him the edge in wearing down Thomas so that Sonny takes a 15-round verdict but looks older and older as the rounds go on, say 9-6 so in rounds.

He leaves with the belt around his waist but also with his fearsome image a bit tainted. Pinklon shows that Liston is not invulnerable nor is he any longer the killer of his youth. Other contenders would look at him after this with a little more optimism about their chances.

 

What do you think happens with Donald?

 

Too reluctant to win and I don’t think he has anything going for him here except a solid set of whiskers and a good pair of legs to keep him from too many dangerous exchanges. Basically a dancing 1-2 guy but not nearly as dynamic or explosive as others of his type, if you want to call them that … not even a poor man’s Larry Holmes imo.

I think he can manage to stay out of trouble for 10 rounds or so. As I noted, Sonny has no track record as a late closer so I think he mainly follows Larry around for 10 rounds and piles up points with his superior jab and some thudding body work.

Maybe if Larry slows down late, Sonny catches up with him and gets the stoppage-on-his-feet but more likely a dull 15-round nod to Liston by a fairly wide margin.

I never rated Donald as much. Perhaps I’m underestimating him, but I don’t think even a beginning-to-decline Liston is a bridge too far for him because I don’t see Larry pressing the issue to test Sonny’s stamina or willingness to work.

 

Jimmy Young has the best chance IMO out of those. (excluding Holmes)

 

Two guys that come to mind are Kirk Johnson and Larry Donald. Both have the skills but lack mental toughness. Byrd might be able, but he's undersized and lacks power, Chris does have balls. If Byrd can last a few rounds then he definitely has a chance, Liston was powerful, but Byrd was quicker, and he could make Sonny miss and land combinations, it would still be a very big upset.

 

None of these including Holmes.

Well, that's unless the mobsters running Sonny decide otherwise. Then it could have been Rudi Lubbers for all it mattered. Sonny wasn't crossing his handlers at that point. (He might have double-crossed them over the Wepner fight. Which is a common educated theory on why Sonny got the hotshot in Vegas)