To you, do Usyk's cruiserweight wins count towards his status as a heavyweight great?

I think if a win happens at a weight division it counts towards your greatness in that weight division and that weight division only. For example I would not count Manny Pacquiao's wins at featherweight when assessing his welterweight greatness. You should only focus on what they did in that specific division.

 

The fact cruisers are close in size and often fight at HW at some point means that often they're better than lower HW's, so beating them does mean more as far as the resume. So your point is valid but you're trying to argue with boxing people.

There's no question someone like Hunter is better than plenty of people on Wlad's record and that alone is quite telling. Then we have someone like Haye who was one of Wlad's better wins and yet he was mainly a cruiser too.

Fury's fight with Cunningham is often used against him but it only showed that natural cruisers can be more difficult to deal with than HW's. Obviously that win is better than certain HW wins of Fury, similar point to Wlad v Haye.

Fact is small HW's and cruisers are often interchangeable. The cruisers aren't even bulking they're just not cutting, so basically the same fighter.

 

No. His cruiserweight wins shouldn't count toward his heavyweight legacy, since heavyweight is called the unlimited division for a reason.

That said Usyk's heavyweight legacy is just fine as it is considering he has a win over Chisora, Dubois, and back to back wins over both Joshua and Fury to become the undisputed heavyweight champion. If he manages to defeat Dubois again and retires afterwards Usyk would be leaving behind a formidable heavyweight legacy.

 

Yes. I posed this question and most people agree that it does.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...unts-toward-his-heavyweight-greatness.730855/

 

No, they're not at HW so they dont count.

Same as Holyfield and Haye at HW.

 

I would if Usyks CW opponents did anything at HW. They wouldn't count as HW fights but they would matter. Thats not the case really so for me the conversation is largely irelevant. Usyk is 7-0 at HW is him beating Gassiev and Hunter supposed to really change someones evaluation?

 

No , when switching weight classes you begin with a clean sheet of paper and your legacy at the new weight class will be judged on achievements you have made here.

 

213 pounds Mairis Briedis knocked out Manuel Charr in an impressive fashion

 

I think it does in some cases.

Usyk has wins over Hunter the current boxrec #1 rated American HW and current boxrec #11 world rated HW
And a win over
Gassiev the current #9 world rated HW

Due to them also stepping up to HW I think it holds up
I don't think many would be wanting to see a return fight with either against Usyk which I think highlights why those wins hold up

Usyk has beaten 6 of the current boxrec top 20 HWs and 2 of them twice

 

The problem is it changes goalposts.

But Uysk crusierweight opponents are really bigger than most the heavyweights pre 80s and there wasn't a crusierweight division before the 80s.

Also his achievements at crusierweight are considered there own unique thing as with Holyfield.

 

I showed up to make essentially this post. As you have done it for me, better than I could have, all I can do is quote you.

 

Holyfield is a slightly different case as he bulked up a lot. Usyk hasn’t. Reports from back in the day say he was walking around at 220 when fighting at cruiser, and he weighed in at 211 when he pummeled Joe Joyce in WSB. Point being — Usyk is a natural HW who used to weight cut to make CW; Holyfield was a natural CW who bulked to make HW.

So, I guess this is actually more of a benefit for Holyfield than Usyk in terms of legacy in a way?

 

Yes and no.

On a purist level, those wins are at a lower weight, that's where they really count.

On another...
There are some who hold the shortness of Usyks time at heavy against him - without those cruiser wins, he wouldn't have been able to get to the top anywhere near as quickly as he did... To then ignore that he basically cleaned out the best at the lower weight is a little uncharitable.

In some regards how short his heavyweight run is isn't important - he cleaned the two best out twice each, plus the likely champion of the next generation, that's worthy enough without needing to have your cake and eat it.