Tommy Loughran or Mickey Walker?

I'd have Otke above Walker as a boxer but prefer Walker with me in a bar fight. Walker is 1 of Mike Tyson's heros. But I don't believe you can look at Walker's wins in isolation without looking at his losses. Which are plentiful in his prime.

Like I say it's horses for courses, Walker can brawl with any man while Otke like Loughran would spoil most men the same size for the win. Walker would struggle with technical movers. Neither is necessarily better than the other, it's what you prefer in a boxer.

I also think Otke's achievements are very good for their time. He beat most of the guys at 168. Politics saw that he didn't face Jones Jr, Hopkins and Calzaghe though. He also had a better resume than Calzaghe when he retired although I rate the latter better

I'd rather fight like Walker than Otke and think he's much more of heroic figure. But Otke was incredibly effective at what he does

 

I would take Walker for his absurd heavyweight run, and frankly his style appeals to me more than Loughran.
Loughran got results I can’t deny that and was more consistent in his prime but his spoiler style wasn’t exactly fan friendly.

 

Hi Buddy.
For good measure you can add : Bogash, Malone, Shade, Bartfield, Latzo, Tendler, McTigue, Berlenbach,and the ferocious Ace Hudkins.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Mike.

 

Walker by a fair distance for me.

Whilst I rank Loughran slightly higher at LHW than I do Walker at WW, I rank Walker far higher at MW than I rank Loughran at HW.

When you also factor in Walker's crazy exploits at LHW and HW, a clear gap appears, imo.

 

I agree 0 has slightly lost it's value. But what's important anyway it's very rare for a fighter to retire unbeaten if they have had enough fights at world level.

 

Walker is unusual in my rankings in the sense I rank him higher in my p4p ATG rankings (which are based on all career fights), where I have him #12, than I do any individual weight divisions (which are based on fights contested in those weight divisions only). I have Walker #15 all time at both WW and MW.

To answer your question, according to my notes, Walker went around 30-5 at MW. I only consider 2 of those loses to be around his prime years, one was a DQ loss, twice avenged, and the other was to Harry Greb.

Walker reigned at MW for years, going 5-1 in lineal world title fights, again, the only loss being to Greb.

Walker beat Tiger Flowers (though he probably got lucky with the decision), Ace Hudkins x 2, Tommy Milligan, Jack Malone x 4 and was reported to have the better of an 8-rounder in a no decision bout with Soldier Bartfield.

So, it's not so much about how much Walker's exploits at MW impressed me, though #15 all time isn't bad, as much as it is that I'd rank Loughran no where near as high at HW. I.e., part of my rational for saying I have Walker comfortably ahead of Loughran is:

1st/prime weight divisions - I rank Loughran #9 all time at LHW; Walker #15 at WW.

2nd weight divisions - Loughran isn't in my top 25 HWs, nor would he get close if I extended those rankings down; I have Walker #15 at MW.

Additional weight divisions - whilst Walker doesn't make my top 25s at LHW or HW, he did impressive work in both divisions from a p4p perspective, particularly at HW.

 

I just don't rate Loughran and Walker's skillset that highly. Loughran's strong points were his use of distance, his timing and length of his jab and his lateral movement. Outside of his jab, his arsenal is not great. But his footwork is off balance, his chin is in the air

Now let's look at Walker, he rarely ever used a jab. He just seems to lead with left hooks with his chin in the air. Loughran does a decent job of picking him off. But it's not that hard to pick such a fighter off. You just put a jab in his face and time counters when you make him miss. That's why Greb beat him easily, He has good use of bodyweight shifting in his punches and rolls with the punches quite well but this isn't an elite boxer on a technical level. A very elite puncher though and brave man who loved to fight. But he's limited

Walker also was not the best in any division he fought in. Plenty of losses at welter, schooled by Greb, got a gift decision against Tiger Flowers. Britton was 36 when he first fought him to a draw and was IIRC about 38 when Walker finally beat him. At Welter Latzo dethroned him and clearly outboxed him.

So now let's move to Ottke. His footwork is far better and quicker than both, his balance is better, his handspeed is quicker, he has a high guard that picks off punches, that neither of these 2 men had, his workrate is better, his parrying is there where as the other 2 it's not really, he puts his combinations together quicker. And perhaps I'm being unfair, the 1920s were nowhere near the level of the 2000s in terms of technique. Boxing probably continually improved into the 80s at least IMHO

Creating a fallacy that Flowers, Anceint Britton, Rosenbloom and Sharkey are better than Mitchell, Brewer, Johnson does not pass the eye test. And Walker wasn't even winning most of those fights anyway. You point to Otkke being a hometown fighter but Walker got plenty of hometown decisions. Early Otkke did have close fights but he offered rematches and won them clearly

Also remember Otkke had 300 fights before he even turned pro. I don't think Ottke beats Calzaghe, although it maybe close. I don't think he beats Hopkins or Jones Jr. But Walker and Loughran stands no chance against those boxers anyway, their levels above

 

This might be one of the most ignorant posts Ive ever seen. Loughran fought off balance? Walker doesnt jab and fought with his chin in the air? Its not hard to pick off a fighter like Walker, jeez, why didnt more fighters do it then? Walker is limited? Bizarre comment. Watch him fighting aggressively going forward against Milligan, watch his timing and ability to close the gap, then watch him boxing on the back foot against Hudkins. Walker was as well rounded as any fighter can get. The guy could bang, he could box, he could brawl. Walker could do it all. Calling him limited is bananas.