Should Larry Holmes have treated Muhammad Ali like Jake Paul treated Mike Tyson?

One was a pre-ordained exhibition, one wasn't.

 

There's a tragic irony about the whole situation, in the vein of those "be careful what you wish for" fables. Ali benefited so often from his popularity aura. It harassed challengers for him, and arguably won him fights with judges. But in the Holmes fight, that aura kept him in the ring, taking a humiliating beating, round after round. They wouldn't stop the fight, and Holmes wouldn't let up, because Ali was expected to pull a decision out of his hat. It's one of those nasty, Twilight Zone sorts of twists, like you get in Faustian deal stories.

 

No it was family changing money for him. If he lost to a gift decision it could have ruined his and his families life. It's Ali's teams fault for not telling him he was done, not Holmes fault

 

Ali was the lineal champ at this time. It was a very different situation. This is not 1/1. Ali was washed, Tyson was 61 years old theres a very large difference there.

 

**** man the same thing is happening round where i live, everyone and their mother thinks Tyson was holding back and that he would have turned Jake's lights out if he wanted to, when in reality it was the other way around

Absolutely disgraceful event, i turned it off after the first round and only watched the rest of it in parts, it felt so wrong.

 

Tough call.

On one side, it was sickening to watch Holmes beating (and damaging) a faded fighter who could hardly defend himself.
Urban legend says that after the fight Holmes told Ali he loved him, and Ali retorted: "Then why did you beat up then?".

So, Holmes wan't exactly an example of noblesse oblige.

On the other side, the "Ali's effect" was real and judges, referees, fans, newscasters, the whole establishment were biased towards Ali.
Thus, Holmes had to walk a narrow line, making sure he won clearly, otherwise risking being robbed.

Let's add that the main fault for the beating falls on Ali himself and the referee. Ali could have just gave up early claiming some physical/technical issue, being blinded, having cramps, whatever. Same the referee, who was an absolute disgrace. He could have stopped the fight, but he didn't. The gravy train had to go on.

In any case, it is up to Holmes and his conscience.

 

Absolutely.

Not giving Homes a free pass here. But he is probably the least guilty for that disgrace of a fight.

The referee and Ali's corner were real vultures, allowing the fight go on for 10 terrible rounds.

And also let´s put the blame on Ali's stubbornness and delusions.
He could have pulled a Buster Douglas, leave early and go home with a fat paycheck smelling of roses. But ultimately he chose to endure the punishment.

 

It's like people deliberately ignored the news that Mike was almost killed by an ulcer flareup only a few months before the fight, in addition to his age.

Jake was a 30 years younger, 230 lbs juiced to the tits man, Mike didn't need to be the one holding back in that fight.

About a year earlier a 59 year old Holyfield took a savage whooping from retired MMA fighter Vitor Belfort. Men that age should not be fighting.

 

I read he said that in Holmes book Holmes said he was purposefully bullying Ali “like he would a sparring partner” and treating him like a trespasser to show him his time was over.

 

Sometimes I think Paul should of did what Rocky Marciano did to Louis and upload on him. It is a fight, I think the fight hurt Paul more as a fighter.

 

IMO, Holmes went after Ali for the KO.

Pre fight he talked seriously of securing a KO. He sparred many intense rounds leading into the fight, going hard on his partners.

A poster of Ali, deliberately “doctored”, depicting a battered, bruised and blacken eyed Ali was hung in Larry’s gym.

If Holmes hung off, it was only in the very latter rounds.

Holmes was never going to drop and KO Ali, cut and dried. Even with all guns blazing, it was always going to be an ugly beat down while Ali held his feet - even Holmes understood that it was becoming and would continue to be bad for the optics.

Holmes himself had also said that he knew Ali would choose to die before falling.

I also believe Larry shed croc tears post fight. If he respected Ali as he claimed he did, extend that respect so as to not claim, be it true or not, that he “carried” or “spared” the man.

Having said all that, Larry did nothing wrong fighting as he did. That’s the game, Ali knew that and so did his parasitic hangers on. Also, Ali wasn’t exactly the most merciful guy during his own career at certain times.

As to Tyson vs Paul, I’m not easily swayed toward believing in fixes or pre scripting but there are a number of reference points during that fight when, even accounting for Mike’s age, it appeared that he pointedly avoided pulling the trigger on a number of potential power punches.

Shortly after their “fight”, Tyson and Paul were seen unashamedly partying together - Mike picked up about 10 million before tax?? as far I’ve read.

Mike had also stated that he held no stock in legacy or how he might be remembered. That tells me that Mike was highlighting material/monetary gratification as his priority.

Now Mikes huffing and puffing as the fight wore on might’ve been real - but then why would he work on his cardio with the knowledge that it was going to be a scripted, glorified exhibition anyway? Obviously Mike knew to do just enough to at least look the part in terms of sheer physical appearance.

The vids of Mike’s prep going into the fight were obviously meant to mislead, just very short grabs of Mike going hard.

 

I'd be surprised if Tyson was up for a genuine fight. It was obviously an exhibition type event, really. I bet it was hard work getting Tyson even to the poor state he was in. A whooping would have been no good for Tyson, the event, or Paul IMO.

 

Did you see the pre fight dressing room thing with Mike, Lennox and Evander? Lol, that was weird. As they stood their quiet, Mike more or less asked both of them did they have anything to say or advise to give.

They both said something inconsequential but they might as well have just said “Sorry Mike, I’ve got nothing - but the pay cheque’s cool, isn’t it?”. Haha.

 

I didn't see that