Bodysnatcher vs. The 4 Kings (McCallum vs. Marvin Hagler, Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Durán)

I think this post is fair and I agree with most of it.. I do specifically talk about at what weights everyone fights because I think it means a lot regarding durability issues. And it makes sense because this is a big reason Hearns career path took many forks in the road. He was going to fight Green , then Hagler in 83.. Green gets hurt, Hearns folds his right on Sutherland who took the fight on 2 weeks notice, there goes the Hagler fight in 83. Postponed till further notice. Hearns goes back down to 154 , he fights 2 years at 154, no more fights at 160, then goes up to fight Hagler no tune ups .. thats crazy . But thats how it happened because of many rt hand injuries, as i recollect .. And it is important to understand imo, this is why Hearns didnt really settle in at 160 ,, he didnt fight there in 2 years .. His legs werent there imo,, then he would go up to 175 then back down to 160 ,, thats nuts .. But thats why I like him so much .. He just didnt do himself any favors. I do think Mike is noticeably a lot more durable than Hearns and I think he commands that respect

 

This is the meat of the argument at least for me from the get go, the durability. Its a very tough pill to swallow to think Hearns is going to stop Mike.. In fact when the opposite has rung true that Hearns' durability issues happened a lot in is career as well as some of the bigger stronger guys were able to walk thru and survive .. and the " Yeah but argument " is a tough road to go down on this one imo

 

It's all good mate we don't have to agree on everything. That's what we are here for. Just remember, there's been hundreds of shock stoppages over the decades and there's been thousands of eye opening upsets. Following the narrative and the oddsmakers would see someone pick ZERO of these correctly. Not every fantasy fight can unfold as expected and there simply has to be some shock results. I rarely go for the shock result but here i am opining that's it's certainly not impossible.

Back to Sutherland, Hearns himself trained less than four weeks. They were training for a guy 5'4 !/2 and got a guy 6". They expected a routine stoppage of Green who had been stopped by The Animal not much prior and got a very durable tough Scot. You said Hearns folded his right hand on Sutherland but he said he didn't. He did have trouble just prior including injuring it during a game of basketball. I could be wrong but i think he had recurring troubles with the hand training after the Sutherland bout and then had an operation. Matters little tho he certainly had his troubles around that time.

I can tell you what really happened regarding the Hagler fight not coming off when it did and Hearns travels up and down. Hearns belted Marcos Geraldo out in half a round and not much Hagler faced Hearn's Kronk stablemate, "Caveman" Lee. Hearns - Hagler was already pencilled in. Hagler knocked the Caveman back into his cave in horrific fashion in about 1 minute flat. Not much later Kronk claimed a finger injury for Hearns and the fight was rescheduled a couple of times. The overwhelming feeling and commenting at the time was that Steward went cold on the Hagler fight and didn't feel Hearns was ready at that point in time. I am very partial to this train of thought and it's the obvious explanation IMO.

Hearns troubles came against big strong physical middleweights. McCallum is definitely not that so there's going to be plenty of boxing and no overwhelming or walking thru fire as DP pointed out. This will allow Hearns to settle into his own pace and be right in the fight.

It's been fun, another great matchup in classic with plenty of opinion and passion.

 

All good JT , we can disagree it happens ... But just so you know I wasnt pulling it out of my ass .. Sutherland was one of the toughest fights Tommy he ever had

“He was a durable guy and could hit and take a hit. I bust my hand inside the early rounds.

“My right hand just buckled and I had to fight with one hand. That was a long old night and I was just happy to win.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/boxing/boxing-legend-thomas-hearns-reveals-4613650

 

Yeah i know the Sutherland fight inside out. I agree totally it was a tough one and would never think you were pulling something out of your keiber.

That article tho was formed in 2014. I read it about an hour before your post making sure i had all my ducks in a row. The immediate post fight comments and interviews featured a completely different take -

"Hearns had been sidelined by an often-injured right hand. But he said he had no problems with the hand today, ''because I wasn't able to get it through as often as I wanted.''

Sutherland fought mainly from a defensive shell, with both hands held high despite Hearns's frequent body attacks. Emanuel Steward, Hearns's manager and trainer, said it was not surprising that Sutherland had escaped a knockout."

I dug deeper earlier and found a couple of articles attributing some injuries post Sutherland in training. I figured the at the time articles were more trustworthy than Hearns memories 30 years later. Nothing is quite carved in stone tho, it's all good.

We are mostly in agreement, i mainly wanted to expand on a couple of things in your initial post.

 

All good, Flash! Besides I actually agreed with most of the post. Also, there is something to be said for a Long Island ice tea or 5. Don't like the hangovers though.

 

I would make him an underdog against Hagler, Leonard and Hearns but he could potentially give them all good fights. I might slightly favor him over Duran

 

None of my answers are changed from before and after his passing…

W UD Duran
W TKO’s Hearns
L UD (like a 6-9 type) Leonard
L UD (5-10 type) Hagler (rematch)

I could see McCallum beating Hagler in a series of 3 ONCE winning the first one but not Leonard. Just my 0.2$.

 

it’s a possibility. I might not favor him to do it but it isn’t out of the question

 

First off, it's important to keep in mind that a lot hinges on which version of each fighter shows up and what weight class we're talking about. With that said, I think McCallum handles Roberto Durán in any weight class, McCallum's size and overall skill set would simply be too much for Durán to overcome.

Against Thomas Hearns, I also favor McCallum. Hearns, for all his power and explosiveness, wasn't always the best against a sustained, intelligent body attack. McCallum, with his ring smarts and that absolutely crippling body work, would have a real shot at breaking Hearns down and stopping him late. Hearns could be worn down and made uncomfortable, and McCallum was just the guy to do it.

Now, Sugar Ray Leonard is where it gets really interesting. If we're talking 154 pounds, I still lean towards Leonard eking out a close, competitive decision. Leonard's speed, skills, and that "it" factor could win over the judges in a tight fight. However, bump it up to 160, and I think the tide turns in McCallum's favor. Leonard, as great as he was, never seemed quite as dominant or comfortable at middleweight. While middleweight was never McCallums best weight I think overall he looked much more comfortable there then Leonard ever did.

Finally, Marvin Hagler. This is the toughest one to call because it really depends on which Hagler shows up. A prime, focused "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler, firing on all cylinders, probably takes a competitive but clear decision. Hagler at his peak was a beast, with relentless pressure and an iron chin. But, if McCallum caught Hagler on one of his "off" nights, those fights where Hagler made things harder on himself than he needed to, then I think McCallum's superior technical skills and ring generalship could steal a decision. Overall, though, if we're talking both guys at their absolute best, I'd still lean towards Hagler finding a way to win.

But let's not forget the main point here: the fact that we can even debate McCallum's chances against these legends speaks volumes about his talent. He was a truly gifted fighter, and technically, I don't think he was far behind any of The Four Kings. McCallum deserves way more recognition than he often gets!

 

Looked like they were both being careful in there. I think this type of a fight would have the makings of a chess match and not a wild slugfest