Would the Soviet sports machine have taken over boxing had they allowed their Boxers to turn pro?

They would've done well, not dominate. See Bowe vs Miroshnichenko

 

Let's say Eastern Block and my answer is they are doing pretty well today ...

 

Resident dummy here could you expand on what you’re talking about with South Africa? Could you point us towards any “Nazi raised” boxers? Schemling started boxing in 1921, interested to see what they built even if it’s amateurs etc.

 

I saw a video a couple days ago touting the "Soviet style' and it made me laugh because every move highlighted in the video was straight out of the Haislet book published in 1940. If you look at the success of the Soviet, and Cuban, amateur programs, you will notice that the same guys fought as amateurs for a long time. On the other hand, the US teams had all new faces every few years because guys turned pro. A lot of the Soviet guys were more mature and experienced than the younger US guys who saw amateur boxing as a stepping stone to a pro career.
And, in the early 90s, when the first used to be Soviet boxers turned pro they didn't exactly set the world on fire, did they? It would have been even worse for them in the 50s and 60s when the difference between amateur boxing and professional prize fighting was very wide. In this era, that transition is pretty seamless because, with very few exceptions, all boxing is amateur boxing.

 

Why?

 

I think he was just better overall. Starling’s defence, ability at all ranges and his skill level seems higher he was a Futch fighter a genuine pro not some Olympian amateur tap, tap style.

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding something we essentially just did this:

A: Starling is better than Usyk
B: Why?
A: He's a more complete fighter
B: How so?
A: He's better than Usyk

 

Reducing Usyk to that is very unfair..... He's probably the most skilled southpaw in heavyweight history you don't become undisputed in two different divisions beating all the best fighters in both by just having a "tap tap" style

 

I would say he by far the most skilled southpaw in heavyweight history, partially due to there not being many great southpaw heavyweights. Maybe I'm forgetting someone though.

 

The only ones who can compare are Byrd and Moorer neither I would say is on Usyks level

 

What sort of examples are you looking for? I don’t really want to do a deep breakdown on this opinion but I’ll try to give you something? don’t accuse me of ducking a question though lol I’m the Toney > Foreman guy I’ll do it all day.

 

I mean the available Southpaws at HW is very, very scant it’s what three good not great fighters? We are comparing Usyk to an elite 147lber here - the smaller guys are apples and oranges, much better. HWs aside from Tyson and Louis likely get gutted at the lower weights with there style (not fair as they usually don’t have mobility and they adjust to there size… but it still stands for pure skills) Usyk could beat Holyfield, I think Holyfield is more of a pro - don’t think it’s a discouraging comment to his H2H ability as a HW but his “skills” are good but his style is Olympic in nature and limited in some ways (So was Muhammad Ali) I think not even for just a Southpaw in his bracket of 210lbs+ fighters he’s one of the best and most skilled fighters at the open weight but comparing him to say Toney? Louis? Mayweather? Starling? Moore? NAH.

 

Did the Russians advocate the bouncing from front to back style (do they call it the pendulum style?) and then jabbing off the bounce? I prefer just sliding the feet and pushing off the back foot and sliding the front foot to jab (push/pull). Of course everything else works off of that and it doesn't seem that Russian style would make the rear hand harder to see or better. The first fighter I ever saw who seemed to intentionally throw his right hand wide was Kovalev (I assume he learned the Russian style?). I suppose it gave him a little more power, but when a punch comes from outside the body, the opponent should be able to pick it up and defend or counter. Now I see a lot of people on YT throwing a wide rear hand like Kovalev.

Of course before the Tyson - Paul "fight" everybody on YT was mimicking Tyson and the D'Amato style because of the 5 second clips of Tyson hitting the mitts. I especially don't like the D'Amato style, and I have gained extra respect for MT for being as successful as he was while using it. I think MT would have been much better if he had learned a more conventional style of boxing and worked at it as much and with the intensity he worked with the D'Amato style.

As you've mentioned in the past, everybody wants to invent something. I can't remember who said it, but he said something like "being in better condition than your opponent is the best technique." If the opponent gets tired, almost anything will work and if the opponent has better conditioning, even if his technique is terrible, it's going to be tough. I'm guessing that if the Soviets/Eastern Europeans had an advantage it was in conditioning over most of their opposition.

 

How am I not giving him credit? Example? I have said many times he’s a genuine great, I said he’d pull an “upset” on Ali, Holyfield and Foreman. I think he’s a top 10 HW.