I have noticed a trend where people are constantly picking against Joe in fantasy fights. Perhaps younger posters just look at Joe`s record and are a bit underwhelmed.However i rate him a top 10 heavyweight of all time and the disrespect he gets on here really annoys me.Frazier was a fantastic fighter and a great human being
He was but he was also a small swarmer and as fighters have gotten so much bigger that has to factor in where he rates ... P4P he's well into the all time best heavyweights ever but there are a hell of a lot of heavyweights in the past 135 years ...
No depth against elites, bar an Ali win against an Ali who was coming off over 3 year ring rust with only one or two tune ups, he's 6'0 210lbs. He just gets beat up against most top heavies.. He is romanticised for being "Ali's rival" more than being his own, "elite" fighter imo. Please prove me wrong I want to learn here
You needed to be around at the time to realise how good he was. I know most people will disagree but i would confidently pick him to beat Usyk
Joe would be a Cruiser for today's standards, and a smaller one at that. Usyk is my Cruiser GOAT i'm sorry you haven't convinced me
Actually, a few people do agree with you on that Noel, and I am one of them, maybe not 100% confident but still reasonably so. At the very least, Joe appears to be a very bad stylistic match up for Olek- as an elite swarming slugger, he’s a very genuine antidote to offset and eclipse Usyk’s excellent skills.
I’ll just say another thing re some people’s belief that certain fighters gained most of their fame by their association with Ali. In a literal sense, that might be true but it’s not true in terms of the actual credit those fighters deserve for their careers otherwise. Put Ali’s name next to anyone’s, and the media/press always made it ALL about Ali. The legit careers of guys like Liston, Frazier and Foreman all became unduly overshadowed by Ali. Type their names into YouTube and more often than not, their fights vs Ali will present - it therefore requires effort to take a deeper and far more illuminating dive into the careers otherwise. I love Joe also, a truly great fighter who def. has been short changed by some pundits.
His record is underwhelming in a H2H assessment JF’s just the guy who fought Ali and beat Bugner / Mathis and some CW’s it’s hard to look past the one sort of “big” HW puncher mulching him when he was shot, Frazier burnt out so quickly so it’s hard to judge too harshly. A fight against a Lyle, Liston or Shavers etc would’ve done a lot for him and Foreman tbh. Frazier absolutely is crushed by Lennox, Wlad, Louis, Tyson among others in the top 15 and some unexpected guys as it stands though.
Nothing wrong with his resume. Stomped every contender available, and then emphatically beat Ali when he was closer to his prime than at any later point. It's Frazier's head to head abilities that are the problem.
Exactly right, H2H the crop wasn’t exactly what Lennox Lewis faced he was greater then he was good Frazier did his best but exhausted himself fast. So-so defence, not a lot of power - alcohol, high life and an intense short few years in a crumbling body aren’t a recipe for Joe Louis he was closer to Tyson but not as good.
Because he's a small swarmer who has never shown he can deal with power punchers so its likely the bigger stronger power punchers of later years would probably beat him that's why. I think most would probably favor him against fighters his size or smaller.