1971 Joe Frazier v 1962 Sonny Liston ?

I like Liston's uppercuts to carve him up coming in. He brought the uppercuts out in his decimation of Floyd, a perfect tactical appraisal.

 

You forget one thing, and that is that Liston is vulnerable to infighting and gut punches, and Frazier is a master at slipping jabs; he slipped Ali's fast jabs.

You also forget that Frazier is not a significantly smaller man than Liston; their prime weight difference is maybe 10 pounds, and that Frazier is not the same timid, small, scared Patterson who was not aggressive, strong, and powerful like Frazier.

Unlike Foreman who was stronger than Liston, had better infighting, cut ring better, was taller and more agressive man with harder punches, Liston was more methodical boxer puncher so even if Liston wins it would be helluva fight for him, but Liston is not Foreman and we are talking here about prime FOTC Frazier not the one who fought Foreman.

It is as I said, 50/50 fight, Liston mid rounds or Frazier late, but helluva fight for both.

 

I personally don't think Liston was ever as strong as Foreman (Ali clearly had a much harder time to control Foreman in the clinches) and he didn't use his physicality as much as Foreman did, who always tested the rules with it (a sign of a great fighter imo). But he had much better tight hooks and was a much better infighter, as shown against Patterson.

Tough, tough fight for any version of Frazier this imo. He'd for once meet someone who might actually get the better of him in close.

 

What terrible fight for Joe.
I just see him getting Hurt early and never recovering.
Liston's gonna get stuck right in there and do a lot of damage early.

 

Horrific fight stylistically for Joe. Foreman lifted him off his feet with an uppercut. Liston might send him into a somersault.

 

I dont think it's as simple as that. Joe is undeniably made for the uppercut, but that's a difficult punch to land clean again and again against the perpetual motion he displayed. I don't think Liston was ever comfortable fighting at someone else's pace and yes he used his uppercut and hooks well in the midrange, when fighters were on the way in, but he wasn't an accomplished in fighter...or maybe he was but his will, his aura, his physicality made this a moot point. But Joe lives there. If he can get into Sonny's 'basement' he starts that staccato demolition up and down the body...and he wasn't a one armed puncher, it's just his left hook was such a hammer ot overshadowed his other work. Really see this as a competitive fight.

 

Liston had power at every range. He punched around about as hard as Foreman. He's skilled and has great timing. Against Patterson at times he even herded his head where he wanted it via a punch to set up big flush bombs. It was elite. For me Joe just can't take what he brings to the table. Joe faced one truly big puncher that was a top class fighter in his life. Liston showed plenty of will and durability at his best. All the heart in the world can't save you if the incoming is simply too much.

 

I agree ... people have very little idea of what a force Liston was ... it is nice to impact on Joe who was a warrior ... it's styles ..

 

Liston vs Frazier isn't as one sided as most think, imo he is being overrated here because Frazier lost to Foreman so badly. Frazier is better than anyone Liston has ever fought honestly

 

FOC Frazier was a completely different animal to the one that lost to George, and an entirely differnet animal to Patterson. I rate Liston higher than Frazier, but I think many are looking at Foreman and thinking, oh well, Liston beats Frazier. Liston was a much more educated boxer than young George and would, I think, let Frazier into the fight. His skill and patience might actually be his downfall. I still think it's a genuine 50/50 fight.

With regards power, Liston did indeed have it at all ranges but he was much more comfortable mid to long range. The best version of Frazier doesn't stay in that range long.

Interesting discussion, thanks for all the contributions. Px

 

Well said.

 

Really? Can you go into detail?

 

Not much more to say they just thought Frazier would win I think it's 50-50

 

Who were the fighters? What did they say regarding their experiences?

 

That was a long time ago, and it ain't my place to drop names. But trust me, it hurt serious business. I guarantee you Sonny hit hard. I saw him train he did terrible things to the bag and his training partners.