Rate the quality of Sonny Liston's resume

Williams resume is thin to say the least.. his mystique comes from his perceived status as a rival to Liston. He defeated exactly ONE top 10 opponent in his near 100 fight career.. Terrell.. who he went 1-1 with..

Leading up to the Liston fights his best opponent was Bob Satterfield who a few month's earlier was thrashed in 2 by Ezzard Charles.. Satterfield laid Williams out in 3.. despite being 25lbs lighter.. Am i meant to be impressed?

Like Liston Williams is overrated too... big punching 200lb peer? He could not KO Keene Simmons who the smaller Marciano KO'd in 8 a year earlier... nearly 100 fights & you can't reel off a list of names he KOd.. because he didn't.. 90% of his opposition was poor.. & almost every time he fought someone decent he lost. He was a built up fighter for those times..

Beating Williams isn't on a par with beating ATGs Moore, Walcott & Charles.

Patterson was a great but chinny fighter.. perfect for the heavy handed Liston who had 20/25lbs on him. In fact he was basically a SMW early in his career ..
So i temper those 2 wins somewhat.

 

He was extremely green against Satterfield who himself acknowledged that and rated Williams as a potential future champion which he very well may've been with better management/trainers and had he not shared an era with Liston or Ali.

 

Marciano did not ko Simmons,he never even floored him,the ref stopped the fight with Simmons on his feet.
Williams floored Simmons.

 

This is not good.

 

He annihilated the first two-time heavyweight champion. Twice.

 

Joe Louis is Godly - randomly to me both Baer brothers are actually good wins? I’m not sure why they’re counted as “non proof” for how he’d do against bigger guys - Carnera I get but the Baers? Both had good chins and were serious punchers… Buddy was 6ft6 or 6ft5 and 237-250lbs both guys were only ever properly stopped by Louis.

 

At least Westphal actually got in there and fought Liston - Ingo himself was never ever going to do that.

There were some who felt that Ingo wasn’t too bright - I dunno about that, - but he was bright enough to steer clear of engaging Liston in the ring - rather, he made friends with Sonny and promoted him later in the piece. So, not as dim as he sim.

 

Agreed. He has more than a single win over rated opposition unlike both men you mentioned. Excellent point!

 

Mike Tyson beat Frank Bruno

 

Would be interesting if Williams came along in the early 1950s and gotten a fight with Marciano. There was talks about Earl Walls, the Canadian heavyweight champion, getting a fight with Marciano. Walls was a good puncher, 6'2 and about 205 pounds.

 

Williams floored past-prime Simmons and still won only by UD, while Marciano stopped prime Simmons, who would later claim that Rocky hit him harder than anyone.

 

A fighter with more than 30 professional fights isn't inexperienced, and he was 20 pounds heavier than Satterfield, who was known for his hard hitting but had questionable defense and a weak chin.

No shame in losing against Satterfield, Williams changed after that for the better, but never truly became a champion because he missed some things that made champs what they are, but to say that Williams was at a disadvantage when he was a pro fighter with 30 pro fights, especially with 20 pounds over Satterfield, 7-inch reach difference and 3 inches height difference is an insult for everybody's logic.

 

Why do you copy and paste everything? Are you incapable of forming your own opinion?

 

Where did I copy and paste anything?

Find me anything I mentioned that was copied and pasted, if you can, but you can not, since this is my real opinion.

 

"extremely green"

He had been a pro for five years. His was in his 39th fight. His record was 36-1-1. He had wins over two fighters who had been top ten rated fighters---Bob Garner and Omelio Agramonte.

A lot of men have fought for titles with far fewer fights and frankly, less credentials.

The case has to be made on the basis of youth. Williams was a week short of his 21st birthday.

Certainly there have been lots of fighters who were good before 21.

Mike Tyson--born 6-30-1966 Won title from Trevor Berbick on 11-22-1986 and would also defeat Bonecrusher Smith and Pinklon Thomas before his 21st birthday.

Billy Conn--born 10/8/1917--defeated Fritzie Zivic, Babe Risko, Vince Dundee, Teddy Yarosz and Young Corbett III before his 21st birthday.

Joe Louis--born May 13, 1914--was a top contender by his 21st birthday. KO'd former champion Primo Carnera on June 25, 1935, only about a month past his 21st birthday.

So it is a tough sell to me that automatically Williams was too young.