Rate the quality of Sonny Liston's resume

A fighter with more than 30 professional fights isn't inexperienced, and he was 20 pounds heavier than Satterfield, who was known for his hard hitting but had questionable defense and a weak chin.

No shame in losing against Satterfield, Williams changed after that for the better, but never truly became a champion because he missed some things that made champs what they are, but to say that Williams was at a disadvantage when he was a pro fighter with 30 pro fights, especially with 20 pounds over Satterfield, 7-inch reach difference and 3 inches height difference is an insult for everybody's logic.

 

Why do you copy and paste everything? Are you incapable of forming your own opinion?

 

Where did I copy and paste anything?

Find me anything I mentioned that was copied and pasted, if you can, but you can not, since this is my real opinion.

 

I agree.

 

"extremely green"

He had been a pro for five years. His was in his 39th fight. His record was 36-1-1. He had wins over two fighters who had been top ten rated fighters---Bob Garner and Omelio Agramonte.

A lot of men have fought for titles with far fewer fights and frankly, less credentials.

The case has to be made on the basis of youth. Williams was a week short of his 21st birthday.

Certainly there have been lots of fighters who were good before 21.

Mike Tyson--born 6-30-1966 Won title from Trevor Berbick on 11-22-1986 and would also defeat Bonecrusher Smith and Pinklon Thomas before his 21st birthday.

Billy Conn--born 10/8/1917--defeated Fritzie Zivic, Babe Risko, Vince Dundee, Teddy Yarosz and Young Corbett III before his 21st birthday.

Joe Louis--born May 13, 1914--was a top contender by his 21st birthday. KO'd former champion Primo Carnera on June 25, 1935, only about a month past his 21st birthday.

So it is a tough sell to me that automatically Williams was too young.

 

This is deceptive. Williams fought a couple 4-round bouts when he was 16 before being suspended for fighting underage.

Another thing is Williams had zero amateur career. He supplemented by fighting novices and club fighters early in his career to learn the craft.

Agramonte was in his penultimate fight and ended up losing his next (and final) fight as well.

Garner was in his last fight and hadn't won in 4 years. Talk about grasping at straws.

Agreed. Guys like Rademacher fighting for the title in their debut fight were experienced enough.

Correct. He was young, green, years away from a ranking, and came in as a last second substitute.
"Cleveland Williams a 20 year-old heavyweight with the potential ability of a champion, faces the first major test of his three year career tonight when he meets Bob Satterfield of Chicago in the feature 10-round bout at Miami Beach auditorium. Satterfield, a far more experienced fighter is a 7-5 favorite."

"Williams took the Satterfield match on short notice replacing Charley Doc Williams after the latter pulled out of the match."
"His fighter is in perfect physical condition but has had very little sparring. Cleveland has done pretty of road work since beating Jones two weeks ago but did not do any sparring until Sunday."

"but Chris (promoter Dundee) was in a hole and I decided to take Satterfield. I'm as anxious to see this one as you are."

"So we took the gamble. I know Satterfield is a helluva puncher and he's got a big edge in experience

Source: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=MkRCSU1TY1dfWFJSMWhVRUc4dTBWNWN5dzF2SXBB

 

C+B

 

I think the main reason Williams never fulfilled his potential was a
357magnum bullet to the stomach when he was the 4th ranked contender,This took him out of boxing for a year and a half and he never regained contender status again,he remains a ,"what might have been," imo His management took a gamble putting him in with the 9th ranked Satterfield, at short notice, a gamble that rebounded spectacularly against them.
Given the well documented circumstances of this debacle , I cut Williams some slack for that one.

 

The scores for the Williams v Simmons fight were.
31-62,39-61,42-58 You cannot get any more one sided than that! Marciano had some rough moments with Simmons and was in danger of losing because of a badly cut eye.
In his book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of His Times, Russell Sullivan wrote: "Marciano was in trouble early before winning—and not before drawing some boos from the Providence crowd for hurling a few low blows."
Bottom line, I corrected a poster on a statement he made.

 

But Marciano was able to stop Simmons who was at the time in his prime, after Marciano fight Simmons was not able to win any fight until after Williams fight.

Williams won by UD but look at picture of Simmons vs Marciano and you would realize why Simmons called Marciano the hardest puncher in the game.

 

Simmons face versus Marciano

https://imgur.com/a/bQHivHg

& Valdes failed to stop Simmons too.

 

Very true. Plus, Marciano and Williams had two other common opponents - Art Henri and Jimmy Walls - and Williams beat them both faster than Marciano could, despite being only 19/20 years old at the time. It's at times like this it would help to have the necessary levels of dishonesty and self-delusion to claim that proves Williams was the better fighter.

 

Williams was such a devastating HW puncher he couldn't stop Frankie Daniels in TWO fights , despite having 20lbs on him.. Daniels was little more than a MW for much of his earlier career.. Satterfield, Marshall, Finley etc had all KOd him at LHW..

 

Actually he didn't he said,"everywhere he hit you he hurt you," not quite the same thing.

 

So did Lastarza x2 and Brion x2.