Doug Jones vs Muhammad Ali - 1963-03-13

An old newspaper report from 1963 in the New York Times suggests Doug Jones defeated Cassius Clay (later Muhammad Ali) and was robbed by some dodgy judges, because Clay was heavily hyped at that time as a future star.

Does anybody here know more about this fight?

• "I thought I won it no worse than 6-3-1." - Doug Jones

• "I'm not knocking his big mouth. He made me a lot of dough. He talks a lot outside but doesn't show much in the ring. He better fight me again before he even thinks of Liston." - Doug Jones

Unofficial Scorecards:

• AP: 5-4-1 Jones
• Oakland Tribune: 5-4-1 Jones
• UPI poll of 25 writers at ringside: 13 for Jones, 10 for Clay and 2 even

DOUG JONES

 

I've seen this bout a few times now and I made it 6-4 Clay. A lot of the rounds were close and it was Muhammad's toughest fight up to that point but he did enough to pull off the victory. A right of passage bout which improved the winner as a fighter.

 

Enry Cooper, D Jones... those guys don't count even if it was right before he had his higlight performance? K Mildenberger? forget about that guy too... Ali was untouchable look at him dispatch of Williams, Folley and London instead! This narrative that every time he struggled in his mythical prime he was either "not actually prime" (communist strat, it wasn't real communism...) or "Playing around" needs to die Ali did not get hit because he wanted to be hit, he was hit because the other guy was a pro fighter. Ali struggled mightily in his prime, was hurt badly and dropped multiple times because he was human. D Jones I don't think beat him, been a while - but imagine if it was Louis instead? at 21 Ali had been boxing for nearly 10 years had been to the Olympics and had 18 pro bouts.

 

Again, this shows the value of socalled “newspaper decisions”. No way did Jones win that fight.

 

I had it 7-3 Ali it was competitive but I didn't think it was that close.

 

It was a learning fight for a 21 year old Ali early in his career no different to Foreman/Peralta, Tyson/Tillis.

The most common scorecards I've seen from fans is 6-4 Ali and that was also my scorecard.

It was competitive but I've never seen a single fan score it for Jones.

 

From what I can remember, Jones did well to hit some power jabs in Ali´s face but actually win the bout ? Nah, that is a overreaction..

 

Good point, and it seems like the hate for Ali was big already and that got into the heads of the writers.. possibly.

 

I remember reading that people thought Jones won before I saw the fight. I've since seen it and thought Ali won 6-4 or 7-3.

 

I had it 7-3 Clay. Very sensationalized controversy. Not much to it, he won fair and square.

 

I watched it see if the robbery claims were true 2 years ago but yeah I can't see how Jones won.

 

One of those bouts that whenever the loser does a lot better than he's expected to and,in consequence,looks like he's doing better than he actually is. Somebody once called it a compound illusion - attributed to Budd Schulberg.

 

He's damn lucky Tire Iron Jones never got to him in the pros, we would've never heard of Ali if he had!

 

Doug Jones wasn’t overly good and it’s why this fight should be seen as/ talked about more Jones may not have won but he rocked Ali and outboxed him in stretches, Ali didn’t look good here at all and DJ was 188lbs (at one time he was 175-179lbs fighting guys like Bobo / Maxim) DJ, Cooper and Mildenberger all showed flaws in Ali’s games and impressively so in stretches.

 

Exactly.

I think Duran’s surprising performance against Hagler also carried that same illusion for some.

Likewise, Timmy Witherspoon’s performance vs Holmes - a close but still clear win for Larry imo.

A fighter who well surpasses pre fight forecasts/predictions for his own projected performance doesn’t necessarily default to a fighter having actually beaten the guy in front of him - but yeah, sometimes said fighter are awarded “bonus” points for simply “exceeding” expectations of themselves.