Rate the quality of Sonny Liston's resume

He was small, he was a LHW same way Leotis Martin was.

He didn't have a good chin, he never met a good puncher, and the first one he met, knocked him out.

Chuvalo stopped him, Frazier knocked him out mid rounds, maybe he had a good chin for a lhw but not in HW division.

 

How did contradict your claims?

You said my words don't hurt you, but you proceed to insult me and call me names?

If that's not contradicting, what the hell is?

 

Martin was 6ft 1/2 in and 199lbs when he beat Liston ,you've been pulled up on this dozens of times.
Martin had 36 fights 25 of them were at heavyweight.
Jones had 41 fights 24 of them were at heavyweight.
Yes you are stupid!

 

Just for Liston fight, but he started as 175 pounder and was in 170s and 180s for most of his fights.

He started amateurs like MW and ended like LHW, he just bulked for Liston fight because he needed all the size he could get to beat Sonny.

 

Both started as LHW, and both started amateurs like MWs, only stupid here is you.

They were no real HWs just LHWs and not big ones.

 

Where was i arguing with Lonsdale? What post#?

 

When you are not arguing, you are like others, but how many people argued with that one man, like 10 of you, Liston fans attacked him.

 

You keep saying "10 of you" at me but i wasn't even in it LOL

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Yeah, but you supporting them, isn't that still 10 of you?

 

So what?
Langford started as a lightweight
Johnson as a middleweight
Dempsey as a super middle
Tunney as a Lhvy
Charles as a middle
Patterson as a middle
Ellis as a middle
M Spinks as a middle
L Spinks as Lhvy
Ali as a Lhvy

What's the relevance of what weight you start at?

Martin was197 for Russell
194 Mildenberger
195 Clark
199 Spencer was there
199 Bonavena
200Lewis
202 Lewis
204 Newton
198 Russell.
All before he fought Liston.
Corrected and contradicted again!

 

Ali started as LHW because he started boxing very early, he was over 180 pounds when he was 18, you can not compare apples and oranges.

Ellis and Patterson were real LHWs, never HWs

M Spinks was also an LHW who fought for the crown

But again, you are comparing GOATs with some contenders and journeymen just to prove that your hero beat someone, again pathetic try; you contradicted yourself again; congratulations.

So to prove your point, you picked the the top 10 fighters of all time with some blown contenders in weakest era, to prove that your hero fought someone good, and then you tried to prove how Martin was a natural 190 or 200 pounder, pathetic in the best case.

 

Let's further deep dive his post Satterfield loss leading up to Liston:

Ollie Wilson: 10-15-0 was coming off FOUR losses one to a 4-0 Novice.

Howie Turner: 20-6-6 had lost THREE & drawn one of his last 4.

Frankie Daniels: 34-14-2 was coming off THREE wins. At last.. oh wait, they ALL weighed under 180lbs & have a combined win loss record of 29-20-5.. hardly world beaters.

Dick Richardson: 23-6-2 was 1-2 in his previous 3 fights, was coming off a win of sorts, his opponent was stopped on cuts, but had a losing & was coming off FIVE losses.

Even writing this stuff out is like a bad joke ..

Gene White: 18-12-0 coming off THREE losses, one was a debutee.. yes you read that right.

Frankie Daniels: 31-13-2 .. again.. why? Was coming off THREE wins.. but wait.. ALL of them had a losing record & two of them had only won TWO fights..

John Holman: 27-16-1 coming off TWO losses won just ONE of his last SIX.

Bob Albright: 21-6-3 coming off a loss had won ONE of his last FIVE.

Clifford Gray: 2-6-1 had been pro for ONE year was coming off FOUR losses.

JD Marshall: 7-2-0 finally someone who had a win.. oh wait.. the opponent had had one fight.. & lost..

Johnny Mason: 4-5-0 dare i look? Ya... coming off a loss..

Johnny Hollins: 8-5-1 losing the will to live.. Ya, suprise suprise .. coming off a loss..

How can anyone defend that? I've seen nothing like it ..

This is some of the worst padding i have ever witnessed.. it's shockingly bad.. if he was green for Satterfield then whats the excuse for having some of the most dire opposition over the next 5 years leading up to Liston that i have ever seen.. this is supposed to be one of Listons 'signature' wins.. a 'highly regarded contender'?!

Beating the 12 above made him a different animal for Liston somehow did it?!

12 opponents.. 3 with losing records, 8 of them he outweighed & 9 of them were coming off AT LEAST one loss.. & thats what makes u a top contender? That's his 200lb peer.. the 'monster' u all rave about? Can anyone imagine that today?!

Let's delve more.. The combined loss & draw total of his 43 opponents post Liston adds up to 348 losses & 38 draws.. which is dire when you consider that most were taking those losses at a low level against poor opposition.. they weren't taking most of their losses against top tier fighters .. also note that none had the career length of a Moore , Matthews, Charles etc .. where the likelihood is with records that long they are naturally going to have more losses with such longevity... almost every one of Williams' opponents had under 50 fights. Some were as bad as.. Ben Black 2-1-1.. Ben Marshall 5-4-0.. Roy Crear 8-4-0.. yes you read those right..

I'll be totally honest , even I wasn't expecting it to be this bad before I set out to write this.. I'd be utterly ashamed of myself for defending this .. some people have even got the never to measure him up to a legit great like Marciano.. a fella who did way more in 8 years than Williams did over 23 .. we often see the numbers card when it comes to age mentioned with Marciano.. yet no mention of the numbers I've set out here when it comes to Liston & Williams.. funny that.. probably because no one could ever take such a record seriously..

Near 100 fights & his main claim to fame is going 1-1 with Ernie Terrell who was never anything special anyway. 100 fights & he beat ONE rated fighter..

When you have to resort to trying to argue that fighters like Alex Miteff are some sort of world beater then u know somethings amiss..

That's it, done. I think there's no more to be said now. It's all here for you to see for yourself. Peace out.

 

BoxingFan2002: Alex Miteff looked like a promising fighter until Mike Dejohn blackjacked him iin Syracuse, 1957 (in Round I; see YouTube).

 

I liked Doug Jones. He knew how to box and he was fearless. You say the first puncher he met knocked him out. I assume you mean Chuvalo. I think that's more than a little unfair. He took Chuvalo into the 11th round before he was stopped. (To me the idea of going 11 rounds with George Chuvalo when he outweighs you by 27 pounds doesn't sound like much fun) Before that Jones knocked out young Bob Foster and arguably still-prime Zora Folley and both of them could punch. I do agree with you that Jones couldn't stand up to Joe Frazier's power but nobody could in those days.

 

About Liston I would say he was an extraordinary talent and a great fighter and a bum, all at the same time.