Rate the quality of Sonny Liston's resume

When you are not arguing, you are like others, but how many people argued with that one man, like 10 of you, Liston fans attacked him.

 

You keep saying "10 of you" at me but i wasn't even in it LOL

This content is protected

 

Yeah, but you supporting them, isn't that still 10 of you?

 

So what?
Langford started as a lightweight
Johnson as a middleweight
Dempsey as a super middle
Tunney as a Lhvy
Charles as a middle
Patterson as a middle
Ellis as a middle
M Spinks as a middle
L Spinks as Lhvy
Ali as a Lhvy

What's the relevance of what weight you start at?

Martin was197 for Russell
194 Mildenberger
195 Clark
199 Spencer was there
199 Bonavena
200Lewis
202 Lewis
204 Newton
198 Russell.
All before he fought Liston.
Corrected and contradicted again!

 

Ali started as LHW because he started boxing very early, he was over 180 pounds when he was 18, you can not compare apples and oranges.

Ellis and Patterson were real LHWs, never HWs

M Spinks was also an LHW who fought for the crown

But again, you are comparing GOATs with some contenders and journeymen just to prove that your hero beat someone, again pathetic try; you contradicted yourself again; congratulations.

So to prove your point, you picked the the top 10 fighters of all time with some blown contenders in weakest era, to prove that your hero fought someone good, and then you tried to prove how Martin was a natural 190 or 200 pounder, pathetic in the best case.

 

Let's further deep dive his post Satterfield loss leading up to Liston:

Ollie Wilson: 10-15-0 was coming off FOUR losses one to a 4-0 Novice.

Howie Turner: 20-6-6 had lost THREE & drawn one of his last 4.

Frankie Daniels: 34-14-2 was coming off THREE wins. At last.. oh wait, they ALL weighed under 180lbs & have a combined win loss record of 29-20-5.. hardly world beaters.

Dick Richardson: 23-6-2 was 1-2 in his previous 3 fights, was coming off a win of sorts, his opponent was stopped on cuts, but had a losing & was coming off FIVE losses.

Even writing this stuff out is like a bad joke ..

Gene White: 18-12-0 coming off THREE losses, one was a debutee.. yes you read that right.

Frankie Daniels: 31-13-2 .. again.. why? Was coming off THREE wins.. but wait.. ALL of them had a losing record & two of them had only won TWO fights..

John Holman: 27-16-1 coming off TWO losses won just ONE of his last SIX.

Bob Albright: 21-6-3 coming off a loss had won ONE of his last FIVE.

Clifford Gray: 2-6-1 had been pro for ONE year was coming off FOUR losses.

JD Marshall: 7-2-0 finally someone who had a win.. oh wait.. the opponent had had one fight.. & lost..

Johnny Mason: 4-5-0 dare i look? Ya... coming off a loss..

Johnny Hollins: 8-5-1 losing the will to live.. Ya, suprise suprise .. coming off a loss..

How can anyone defend that? I've seen nothing like it ..

This is some of the worst padding i have ever witnessed.. it's shockingly bad.. if he was green for Satterfield then whats the excuse for having some of the most dire opposition over the next 5 years leading up to Liston that i have ever seen.. this is supposed to be one of Listons 'signature' wins.. a 'highly regarded contender'?!

Beating the 12 above made him a different animal for Liston somehow did it?!

12 opponents.. 3 with losing records, 8 of them he outweighed & 9 of them were coming off AT LEAST one loss.. & thats what makes u a top contender? That's his 200lb peer.. the 'monster' u all rave about? Can anyone imagine that today?!

Let's delve more.. The combined loss & draw total of his 43 opponents post Liston adds up to 348 losses & 38 draws.. which is dire when you consider that most were taking those losses at a low level against poor opposition.. they weren't taking most of their losses against top tier fighters .. also note that none had the career length of a Moore , Matthews, Charles etc .. where the likelihood is with records that long they are naturally going to have more losses with such longevity... almost every one of Williams' opponents had under 50 fights. Some were as bad as.. Ben Black 2-1-1.. Ben Marshall 5-4-0.. Roy Crear 8-4-0.. yes you read those right..

I'll be totally honest , even I wasn't expecting it to be this bad before I set out to write this.. I'd be utterly ashamed of myself for defending this .. some people have even got the never to measure him up to a legit great like Marciano.. a fella who did way more in 8 years than Williams did over 23 .. we often see the numbers card when it comes to age mentioned with Marciano.. yet no mention of the numbers I've set out here when it comes to Liston & Williams.. funny that.. probably because no one could ever take such a record seriously..

Near 100 fights & his main claim to fame is going 1-1 with Ernie Terrell who was never anything special anyway. 100 fights & he beat ONE rated fighter..

When you have to resort to trying to argue that fighters like Alex Miteff are some sort of world beater then u know somethings amiss..

That's it, done. I think there's no more to be said now. It's all here for you to see for yourself. Peace out.

 

BoxingFan2002: Alex Miteff looked like a promising fighter until Mike Dejohn blackjacked him iin Syracuse, 1957 (in Round I; see YouTube).

 

I liked Doug Jones. He knew how to box and he was fearless. You say the first puncher he met knocked him out. I assume you mean Chuvalo. I think that's more than a little unfair. He took Chuvalo into the 11th round before he was stopped. (To me the idea of going 11 rounds with George Chuvalo when he outweighs you by 27 pounds doesn't sound like much fun) Before that Jones knocked out young Bob Foster and arguably still-prime Zora Folley and both of them could punch. I do agree with you that Jones couldn't stand up to Joe Frazier's power but nobody could in those days.

 

About Liston I would say he was an extraordinary talent and a great fighter and a bum, all at the same time.

 

After all, all those fellas were natural LHWs, and not good ones except Foster.

Jones and Martin were okay LHWs and not good HWs, they didn't beat anyone good.


McVey compared their case with top 10 boxers of all time, which is crazy and insane, there is a big difference between Spinks/Charles/Tunney and Martin/Jones/Banks.

The first trio was not only GOAT LHWs but good heavies unlike those guys McVey mentioned, that were not even great LHWs let alone good HWs.

Comparing Foster and Spinks with Martin and Jones is again insane.

 

A no one, he was good in the weakest era of all times, late 50s were nothing until Liston and Ali showed up.

 

No man who steps in between those ropes is a bum.

 

Nope, I said whatever weight you started at is immaterial to what you ended up as.
You missed my point entirely.
Jones and Martin were two ten rated heavyweights.I saw Martin beat Thad Spencer at the RAH ,it was the UK Fight Of The Year.
Martin was over 190lbs for the last18 fights of his cut short career.
Was Dempsey a heavyweight?
Tunney
Schmeling
Braddock
Walcott
Marciano
???????
You are talking out of your arse.

 

Distasteful to read that,especially from somebody who would mess his shorts if he was in there with Sonny.

 

In which era and wasnt Martin outboxed by freaking Bonavena, the same freaking Bonavena who ancient Patterson outboxed?

He was not a HW, he started as MW and was a natural LHW, that is like saying that James Toney is a real heavyweight, which is insane.

You are again comparing the top 10 boxers of all time with some journeymen and contenders in a weak era where there were not good 200-pound HWs or even great LHWs except Foster.

It was nothing until Foreman, Ali, and Frazier arrived with Norton and Jimmy Young.

Did Martin achieve 3rd of what Dempsey or Marciano did, so you can talk about his weight?

And Marciano also fought as a hw in amateurs.