Rate the quality of Sonny Liston's resume

What does Bonavena beating Martin have to do with anything?
After beating Liston for his biggest win Martin had to retire because of a detached retina. It's official . You're a fool!

 

Liston always causes some sort of extensive debate for some reason

 

Because Bonavena was not a good boxer and he outboxed Martin, he was not the best contender compared to Norton, Quarry and Patterson.
And that same Bonavena was outboxed by ancient Patterson, just to show you that Martin was nothing but just a contender in a weak era, you can not compare him to the greats who achieved something epic.

Lie again, Martin had an eye problem and had been in a few fights before Liston; it was the problem waiting to happen.

 

Seems like he and Foreman in particular bring out the trolls.

 

For the ones who did also did a good job of "cleaing out" before winning the title... Louis had beaten Baer, Carnera, Sharkey among others, but he had also lost to Schmeling. SRR sure cleaned out at WW, hard to top. Tyson also. Whether you think he became champion when collecting the last major belt against Tucker or when taking the lineal from Spink he had mowed through a good share of the contenders. Ali had a very strong run before winning the title against Foreman. He had two losses also, but avenged both. SRL before beating Hearns is another one. One loss but avenged. Frazier before beating Ali, of course.

Of these I'd probably have SRR and Tyson (at least if we count his run up to Spinks) ahead of Liston. Frazier pretty much tied. The others hard to say since they also had losses.

Others cases of cleaning out?

 

Greb had gotten the better of decent MWs a few times before taking the title.

 

Read this you plank!
"Martin was forced to retire shortly afterwards, as he suffered a detached retina in this bout. Martin took a mandatory 8-count in the fourth round. Liston was flattened with a vicious right."
Bonavena did not out box Martin, he outslugged him and you haven't seen the fight!

 

And I posted recently one article where it was claimed by Martin's menager that Liston isn't the one who retired him and that Martin had eye problem and bleeding few fights before that.
It was Liston who finished the job, if Martin foight Frazier, cthe same would happened because his eye was already damaged.

He did outboxed him and outslugged him, if you look scorecards that's nut just slugging out.

If you win against someome by having more points and you hit and dodge punches better than him, you outboxed him.

 

1.Name a fight in which Martin had an eye injury?
2. Post the scorecards of the Bonavena v Martin fight?
You will do neither.
You talk ****.

 

That's completely untrue, Martin's manager Pinny Schafer was very clear that the injury happened during the Liston fight. As the Associated Press reported:

Schafer said the fighter complained his right eye was bothering him on the return trip from Las Vegas following Saturday's 9-round bout with Liston.

"He said he felt like he was looking through blood at Liston from the fifth round on," Schafer said. "There wasn't any blood you could see on the eyeball, so it must have been in the back of the eye.

"It looks like the cloud we've been riding is busted under us," Schafer said.

https://ibb.co/TBBwTm5g

 

Thanks for exposing this compulsive liar.
Good post!

 

I found this on boxrec:
“Leotis Martin was forced to retire due to a detached retina, which can happen to any fighter. And many people believe he actually suffered that injury a couple of months prior to the Liston bout, when he fought Wendell Newton.”

I found another source—BoxeoMundial's “Punchers from the Past: Leotis Martin”—which mentions eye trouble before the Liston fight. While they don’t give it as an exact quote, the article states that Martin:

“was diagnosed with a detached retina and forced to retire… fighting with the injury from before the Liston fight” boxeomundial.com.

This suggests that his eye injury dates from an earlier bout—not Liston—likely pointing to the Newton fight on October 28, 1969.

 

Nice try again, Martin did get eye problem before Liston hehe, you can do nothing about it.

 

I found this on boxrec:
“Leotis Martin was forced to retire due to a detached retina, which can happen to any fighter. And many people believe he actually suffered that injury a couple of months prior to the Liston bout, when he fought Wendell Newton.”



I found another source—BoxeoMundial's “Punchers from the Past: Leotis Martin”—which mentions eye trouble before the Liston fight. While they don’t give it as an exact quote, the article states that Martin:

“was diagnosed with a detached retina and forced to retire… fighting with the injury from before the Liston fight” boxeomundial.com.

This suggests that his eye injury dates from an earlier bout—not Liston—likely pointing to the Newton fight on October 28, 1969.

 

"There is also the self contradicting dual claims that 1) Williams record was padded with few notable names appearing and 2) Williams was well "experienced" going into the Satterfield bout with a 35-1-1 record."

There is no contradiction at all. A fighter can have a lot of fights against marginal opposition and yet has not been tested against first rate opposition. Williams had 37 pro fights and 139 pro rounds. Comparisons:

Bob Foxworth--was rated in 1947 and 1948. Rose to #2 in the NBA light-heavy ratings in 1948. Had a career record of 20-3. KO'd Bob Garner, Bob Satterfield, Johnny Colan (2), Dolph Quijano, Fitzie Fitzpatrick, and Leonard Morrow. Forced to retire in 1948 due to detached retina. Total pro rounds in career--115. Had 46 rounds of pro experience when he took on and KO'd Satterfield. Had extensive amateur background.

Wes Bascom--defeated his first rated fighter with 23 rounds of pro experience. Defeated Satterfield, when Satts was prime, with 46 rounds of pro experience. Boxrec lists 18 rounds of amateur experience. (Bascom was from the deep South in a segregated era. A rebuttal might be that he had more extensive amateur experience than recorded. But the same could be true of Williams, another deep South African-American fighter. What newspapers would have covered African-American amateur fights in the Old South?)

Ernie Terrell--was 24-3 with 140 rounds of pro experience when he took on Williams. Boxrec lists 3 amateur fights for a total of 5 rounds. This is plausible, as Terrell turned pro at 18.

The real contradiction is dismissing the Satterfield KO on the basis of Williams being green, but crediting Williams victory over the equally green Terrell. Either neither matter or both matter.

"one can't have their cake and eat it too"

I do that all the time. Depends on the size of the cake. This old saying must have come from the days when cakes were much smaller.