Could Sonny Liston have made it undefeated vs Louis title defenses?

The 80's and 90's produced much bigger contenders.To put things in perspective.I think Folley.Machen,Terrell,Chuvalo, and Folley would be ranked contenders in any previous era,if you think otherwise ,name the eras they would not be?
Me Hide? From You?
Do Me A Favour Sunshine!

 

HMMMM



Physically, Terrell is the most formidable opponent Ali has met since his knockout of Sonny Liston in Lewiston, Me. on May 25, 1965. Though taller than most heavyweights, he is a solid man equipped with the tools needed to fashion a victory: confidence, a long, jolting left hand, the ability to fight well and destructively inside and the capability of accepting a hard punch to the head without coming apart. So much for the credit side. Unfortunately, Terrell, like so many of his predecessors, cannot hope to equal Ali in hitting speed or speed afoot. Unfortunately, too, he is a high-strung, nervous man.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1967/02/06/muhammad-ali-ernie-terrell-title-fight

Tex nailed it. Speed has a quality of its own.

 

Could Sonny Liston beat Exum Speight and Pea Wolfgramm

 

Bonavena was a slugger with not any defense or speed, if you hit him hard enough it is not hard to drop him, he also lose balance very often.

 

True.

 

Who said beating Dempsey in 4 rounders is a great achievement ?

 

My claim is not only a claim; it was not I who felt that Martin got an eye injury in the Wendell Newton fight.

Yes, it appears there was suspicion that Leotis Martin sustained his eye injury before even facing Sonny Liston—specifically in the bout against Wendell Newton.

Eye Injury in the Newton Fight (Oct 28, 1969)

• Promoter Peltz and those close to the Martin camp claim the detached retina occurred during Martin’s July–October 1969 fight against Wendell Newton at the Blue Horizon, not in the Liston match two months later reddit.com+15ringtv.com+15boxing247.com+15.
  
  
• According to Peltz:
  
  “It was supposed to be an easy fight for Leotis but it wasn’t, and his eye blew up. He might have been behind on the cards when he stopped Newton.” ringtv.com
  
  
• Ringside observer Collins also recalls the fight being notably tense—“so much at stake for Martin”—adding credibility to the theory that the injury happened then ringtv.com.
  

Detached Retina After Liston Fight

• Official records identify the detached retina as the reason for Martin’s immediate retirement after knocking out Liston on December 6, 1969 reddit.com+15boxing247.com+15en.wikipedia.org+15.
  
  
• Most modern accounts still attribute the injury to the fallout of that December bout groups.google.com+5boxingforum24.com+5en.wikipedia.org+5.
  

✅ Conclusion

• Two competing explanations exist:
  
  1. Promoter/insider claim: The retina was damaged during the Newton fight.
     
     
  2. Official boxing records: The career-ending injury was suffered in the Liston bout.
     

Given these divergent narratives, it’s highly plausible that Martin’s eye was already compromised by the Newton match, which then deteriorated during—or shortly after—the Liston fight.

 

If we didn't correct you, you would still claim that Liston was older than Tyson, don't act like you confirm your mistake.
Once we caught you, you acted like, yeah, I made a mistake, which is typical for you to do.

 

I was thinking more analyzing the technique on film, since that's more of what's at issue here.

The question was whether Ernie showed tools in other fights that he didn't in Ali, or whether the limitations he showed in the Ali fights were baked into the way he fought.

 

Nope, he would not since Wepner had no skills and not close punching and raw power compared to McBride.
McBride is also not only taller by 1 inch, but 43 pounds heavier than Wepner, and still Sonny struggled to stop wepner until 9 rounds.

With McBride's fight going the distance and Liston would for sure lose because of his stamina problems at that stage and because McBride is a bigger and stronger guy than Wepner.

It would be like Wepner 3.0, and it would not end well for Liston.

 

Hmm......I was hoping you could provide hard medical evidence to support the theory that Martin had
sustained the injury before the Liston fight.The weight of opinion does favour Martin suffering his detached
retina during the Liston fight.

 

Nope.There is absolutely no evidence of Liston having stamina problems during the Wepner fight.
Why would stamina be an issue if Sonny fought McBride ?

 

Other top fighters Meehan fought included Harry Wills, Harry Greb, Billy Miske, Fred Fulton, Ed (Gunboat) Smith, and Tommy Gibbons. He had a six-round newspaper decision win over Jack Dillon in 1917 and a four-round decision win against Sam Langford in 1919.

In 1918, the New York Sun wrote: "Meehan is so fat that blows make no impression upon him and he is so awkward that even the cleverest of opponents cannot figure out a way to reach him effectively. Despite the ludicrous appearance he makes in the ring, Meehan really knows a great deal about the game of fisticuffs and he is far from being the easy mark he looks."

Mehaan was better than Martin; he had better wins over Dillon and Langford, plus unlike Liston, who lost against Martin by KO, Dempsey lost against Meehan by DEC and avenged with a vicious KO.

So even that loss is better than Liston losing against guys like Marshall and Martin.

 

He was tired and could not stop Wepner like Bugner and Foreman did inside 3 rounds, he was showing stamina problems also in Martin fight, if Wepner lasted more and fight was 15 rounds, Sonny would fall from exhaustion.

 

Maybe, maybe not, but that eye problem started way before the Liston fight, and had Martin fought someone else like Frazier, who broke Chuvalo's eye socket, the same would have happened to Martin, like in the Liston fight.

I provided evidence enough to see that he had a problem with that same eye way before the Liston fight, and that injury was going to happen sooner or later.