Tucker's hand broken or just an excuse ?

Thats not the point. "green v green fights" can just as easily be won by the guy who turns out to not be as good as "green v prime". You asked how did Douglas beat Tyson and not those guys and there is your explanation. Another explanation is that even prime for prime the margin for error in a 10 round decision is very small and history is littered with ATGs dropping these decisions to fighters they are not as good as. We just don't have 10 round fights of consequence anymore. Tyson Fury tried to bring them back and if not for an unscored knockdown he'd have lost his title to an MMA fighter because of it.


"who is White compared to Tyson?"

Well for starters Mike White is a foot taller than Tyson. He is 6 ft 10. Douglas was shutting out White. **** happens and when you're fighting someone that big who doesn't stink and White didn't stink thats as good an excuse as you're going to get. First time I was arguing this topic and saw that fight on boxer rec I misread and thought it was saying White was shutting out Douglas and I was like fighters can have a bad day and it was a challenging matchup. Was a head scratcher. Given it was the other way around I don't really see what the problem is and why people are holding that against him.

Ferguson was also 28.

 

Lol. No, they’re not excuses. You’ve totally missed the point(s) and contradicted yourself.

You have been trying to make 1001 excuses for Tyson from the get go.

You wondered how Douglas could beat Tyson because you couldn’t reconcile yourself to same - therefore, the “how” has been clearly explained to you.

How did Mike look out of shape for Buster? - that’s right, he didn’t.

His weight was right - unlike Busters own weight in several other of Douglas’ fights, including the Holyfield as already referenced.

How did Mike compete and last for as long as he did, nearly turning it all around in round 8?

He clearly wasn’t anywhere as dissipated as some would like to believe.

Yes, Mike was just 23 yo and in the midst of his prime - those very facts don’t support you, rather, they clearly impugn your argument.

Did you also forget my comment suggesting the equitable removal of any excuses for either fighter?

No excuses for Buster, no excuses for Mike. Pretty simple.

Guess what that leaves us with?

Correct. It leaves us with the material fact that Buster whooped Mike’s ass, period. You don’t seem to be able to deal with that reality.

Buster doesn’t need any excuses but it’s clear that you think Mike does - and it’s likely you have excuses for Mike’s back to losses to Holyfield also.

 

I'm looking for excuses for Buster, not Tyson.

I can assume that Buster was simply better - so what did he do from 1981 to 1989? Why wasn't he as dominant as Tyson?? Why didn't he beat White, Ferguson, Tanhstadd, Bey?

I just read something like this:
lol lol, White was half a foot taller than Tyson.
lol lol, Ferguson was 28.

ok, so is this an explanation or an excuse for Buster?

I'd also like an explanation of why he couldn't handle Steffan T and Bey. Although I have to admit that White's height and Ferguson's age don't convince me. Didn't the opponents Tyson dominated ever beat someone of Whit's height? Not a single 28-year-old? Was it impossible for Buster to overcome?

 

When people wonder why fighters are so scared of getting early losses this thread is why.

Schmeling had 4 early losses. 2 of whom were to nobodys. When he beat Louis he got none of this stuff. Braddock did(unfairly in my view) but he had 25 losses. Thats why fighters challenged themselves.

Whats perplexing is that when it comes to Mike Weaver who started his career 6-6 many rate him very high and they've got no problem forgiving those losses. Because he did well against Holmes. But the guy who started out 17-1 who took a few understandable Ls is a journeyman. Looking at Braddock and Jeanettes resume would give many a modern fan strokes. But at least I understand why. Thats a lot of losses. But with Douglas I really don't get why people are so gosh darm hard on him.

 

Not half a foot. A foot.

Douglas could handle Tangstad. He won the fight on strictly the boxing. Douglas was shutting out Mike White before he lost so clearly it was not impossible for him to overcome. If that fight goes to the cards its an easy victory.

Douglas beat Cobb, Page, McCall and Berbick. Jerry Halstead and Mike Williams are solid opponents for a contender. If you look past the L column Douglas's W column is among the best of the period.

 

His W column isn’t among the best. None of those guys were even in the top ten.

 

There are two Bob Sheridan's calls for the Tyson/Douglas fight and the one which you are mentionning is the one which was made after the fight.

 

3 of them were champions.

 

Two were washed up and one was a young journeyman who was learning on the job.

 

that Buster was ahead with this or that? He lost with Ferguson, with White, with Bey, drew with Tangstad. He didn't find a way to beat them but he found a way to beat Tyson?
We compare someone like White and claim that he was harder to beat than Tyson because he was a foot taller? then how do you explain that he was beaten so many times? was White top 10 in the 80s of those HWs? Top 50? he was tall all the time...

 

Two calls? Haven’t heard that before.

 

I don't think you understand how rare decent 6'10 HWs are. Whites probably a top 10 HW all time north of 6'7. Can anyone name 5 better than him?

But either way Douglas was shutting White out before he knocked him out. You might as well ask why could Ingo beat Patterson but couldn't beat Brian London? Ingo clearly could beat Brian London and Buster Douglas clearly could beat White.

You just can't move past the losses for some reason. But in earlier eras you clearly do because otherwise you wouldn't recognize most of the greats as greats. Why can you wrap your head around it for the early guys but not Buster Douglas? What is your opinion about Daniel Dubois? Why couldn't Daniel Dubois beat Joe Joyce but could beat AJ?

 

The one that is widely present on YouTube was made after the fight.
IIRC the first version was on YouTube a couple of years ago (only in the form of highlights) but I didn't manage to find it.

Edit : this is also noticeable with the Holmes
fight.

This content is protected

Those highlights contain probably the original call (barring the first seconds borrowed from the HBO version).

This content is protected

This is the recall which is the more widespread version now.

 

1. Tyson Fury
2. Valuev
3. Vitali Klitschko (6’7)
4. JLG (6’7)
5. Dychko
6. Jalolov (6’7)
7. Goofi
8. Dimitrenko (6’7)
9. Yoka (6’7)
10. Ustinov

On the other hand, the only 6’7+ guy who I hold in lower regard is Julius Long, so it’s not exactly a strong point even if he were the 11th best guy of that height to box.

 

I said north of 6'7 because I know theres a fair number of 6'7s running around. So you got 4 and 6 6'7 guys.

But let me add another qualifer. Before the 21st century.