Would anyone pick Wilder to beat Liston??

He'd sure take the meat cleaver to Wilder!

 

Liston did drop Wepner.

 

My bad, I only found some highlights of that fight and they for some reason didn't include the knockdown. Ok that bumps him up slightly ig.

 

He didn't quit when Williams broke his nose ,or when Marshall broke his jaw.

 

It relates because Liston was beating world class men and Wilder was beating up a collection of nobodies.Liston beat
DeJohn
Summerlin
Bethea
Harris
Patterson
Machen
Folley
Valdes

Wilder was fighting against unranked trial horses like
Breazeale
Duhaupas
Szpillka
Washington
Arreola
Molina
Scott
Harrison
Firtha
Gavern
The only ranked men he beat were
Ortiz 39 & 40 years old
Stiverne
That's why his opponents were nick named "The Bum Squad".

 

A broken nose in boxing? Meh - I don’t think anyone has ever quit from that lol what a heart…broken jaw against a guy he doesn’t feel threatened by is a big nothing, It’s like Johnson being KD’d by Ketchel… sh1t happens but the opponent was a LHW he dwarfed and cleared the record against… wasn’t Liston also a novice? Doesn’t matter either way, neither shows what happens when he is met with true opposition he QUIT against Ali because unlike in either fight here Ali could really right and made Liston realised there was levels… he looked like a scared BULLY who couldn’t handle a whooping, a real dog hangs in and tries to find an opening Wilder totally dwarfed in size fired missiles till the bitter end, Liston would be sobbing on his stool if it was him in there with Fury.

 

Those "world class opponents" you listed would fight at LHW and CW today. Being world class doesn't make you tougher, it makes you harder to catch. That's why I keep talking about Journeymen, both Liston and Wilder could land whatever they wanted on them and make full use of their power. And what's the result? Liston went to distance with multiple of them while being the bigger man for the most part against modern LHWs and CWs, while Wilder flatline KO'd everyone with just one punch with a significant weight disadvantage every single time. And many (in fact none) of his opponents were no less than 240-250 lbs.

 

Yep Wilder is a much more potent puncher facts anyone trying to argue the guy who couldn’t stop cruisers and LHW’s is a harder swatter then the fella touch of death-ing SHW’s is just butt hurt, Liston outweighed guys by 20lbs Wilder typically outweighed by 20lbs or more lol - does anyone seriously think Machen would survive Wilder?

 

Patterson was194 1/2lbs in the rematch,was the result any different?
Marshall beat Liston on a split decision.
Marshal was beaten stupid in the rematch,knocked down 7 times in the 8 round fight.
In the third fight Marshall ran all night and did not win a round.
What issues would you say he gave Liston?

Machen fought to survive.Liston won a unanimous decision.
" There was no doubt about the decision, however. Judges Ely Caston and Sam Haller favored Liston 118-114 and 118-116, respectively. Referee Whitey Domstad scored it 119-112 for the winner and UPI agreed 115-113. The victory for Liston, who was penalized twice for low blows was his 31st in 32 professional fights. For Machen, the loss was his third in 38 trips to the post."
DeJohn
Wepner
Lincoln
Rischer
Clark
Rush
Johnson
Hunter
Zech
Kingx2
Williams x2
Valdes
Besmanoff
Ali x2
Bethea
De leon
Welch
Lee
Wise
Cab
McMurray
G Johnson
Howlett
Bailey
That's 27 fights out of 54 against men 200lbs and over.ie 50%

Can any champion before 1970 claim the same percentage?

Who were you before you got banned last time?

 

Nice breakdown. the Liston vs Williams fights are among my favourite, abbreviated “go to” fights.

Here’s another for when you have a minute and 4 secs to spare. Sonny and 6’ Wayne Bethea, both guys 204 lbs a piece.

Bethea was never stopped/KO’d otherwise and up to this point I think had never even been KD’d.

I think Wayne might’ve suffered only 1 KD otherwise, that KD coming at some point after the Liston fight but I am happy to be corrected if that isn’t entirely accurate.

Anyway, since Sonny was so painfully slow, you might want to bump the playback speed up to either x 1.5 or x 2.00 in order to make viewing that much tolerable and to also make Sonny the sloth look that bit faster than he actually was.

Just as well for Liston that Bethea had equally slow reactions/reflexes.

And, if you elect x2 playback speed, you only have to spare a mere 32 secs of your time. So, that’s a Win Win.

This content is protected

 

Which of Wilders losing opponents would Liston not ko?

 

Its 5 pounds. Berlanga in the ring weighed 193 lbs against Canelo lmao. This is hardly the flex you think it is.

I don't know how this redeems the fact that Marshall was a journeyman, 170-180 lbs and broke Liston's jaw.

He knocked down Liston as well no? And how did such a small guy got up 7 times if Liston was such a devastating force of nature? People get carried out when Deontay hits them.

Beating him and breaking his jaw the first time, knocking him down, what part of this sounds easy for you?

Actually a fair point.

You do realize that most of these people were just barely over 200 lbs and lighter than Liston himself right? Liston's average opponent weight is like 198 lbs.

But let's really get down to this. He got wiped out by Ali so we can ignore those matches. He went to decision with Howlett, DeLeon and Welch, so 22 stoppages out of 25 fights (without Ali) where Liston's opponents were mostly in the 200-210 lbs range, where he outweighed his opponents for the most part. Remove Wepner, King and Besmanoff as they were RTD'd and we are left with 19 T/KOs out of 25 fights, 76%. Impressive.

Now let's move onto Wilder. All his career were against 200+ lbs men so I'll just remove all his losses like I did for Liston with Ali. This gives us 42 wins by stoppage in 43 wins in total. Let's remove RTDs like we did for Liston. We are left with 39 T/KO wins in 43 wins. 90% stoppage rate against a 240-250 lbs opposition on average where Wilder was out-weighed by about 20-30 lbs on average.

What do you think about it now?

Does it even matter?

I thankfully never got banned so far for bringing up different views.

 

Ortiz, Arreola and Breazeale for sure, most likely a large part of Wilder's journeyman victims as they would all be heavier than him more than DeLeon was when they went to a decision.

 

Marshall was the 7th ranked lhvy when he fought Liston.he did NOT knock Liston down ,that is a myth,he won a split decision.Try as you may you can't spin this any other way than Liston dominated him in their next 2 fights.

Name an heavyweight champion before Liston whose opponents had an average weight of 198lbs?
You are trying to penalize him for his weight? Do you do that with Ali? Retirements are inside the distance wins.
Apart from Ortiz 39 and 40 years old Wilder stopped a lot of overweight,and apart from Stiverne who was as fat as a pig ,unranked sausages. Wilder was a very poor champ and his competition was dire.
Liston cleaned out the division BEFORE he got his chance at the title. Who did he miss, either as a challenger or a champion?

As challenger or champion,Wilder,missed.

Pulev
Wlad
Povetkin
Whyte
Joyce
Chagaev
Solis
Adamek
Joshua
Perez
Glazkov
Jennings
Haye
Kownacki
Hunter
Kabayel
Miller
Rivas
Anderson
Usyk
Sanchez
All ranked when he was.
When he did step up to the plate and fight ranked men .
Fury
Zhang
Parker
He got stuffed!

 

Congratulations on quoting Sonny's defeat to Marty Marshall in what was only Liston's eighth professional fight.The only issues Marshall gave Liston was constantly running away from him in all of their fights.Tell you what -- why don't you randomly pick an opponent from Liston's
record and see how many were 180 lbs and stood only 5' 10 '' ?
So you're making a direct comparison of Ali's fight against Wepner with the Liston slaughter of Chuck.I'm not a betting man but I would wager a very large sum of money that Wepner
would have regarded fighting Ali as a holiday compared to fighting Liston.
So you like to make comparisons ? How about comparing Ali's fights with Floyd Patterson to Patterson's fights with Liston ? Feel free to tell me who was the most emphatic winner.