Would anyone pick Wilder to beat Liston??

I wouldn't pick Usyk, Fury or AJ over Braddock.

 

Weird, eh?

Some people still banging on the Liston - Wepner fight in a completely unjustified attempt to discredit Liston - while also rejecting all DUE qualifications put to them, including Chuck’s own nomination of Liston as the hardest puncher he ever faced.

Foreman didn’t drop Wepner but Liston did with a body shot.

Also, I could guess that the Foreman fight was stopped for a lot less damage -

For the Liston fight, Chuck made a specific request to officials and the ref not to stop the fight based on cuts - and I believe he extended that appeal during the course of the fight.

If we wanted to be similarly superficial and cute about it, we might say that Chuck couldn’t drop Sonny but he did drop Ali.

By 1970, at near or over 40 yo, while he retained a good measure of the integrity of his form and executions, Liston was as slow as molasses (including declined reflexes) and running on a heavily reduced and limited fuel tank - thus being required to pick his shots even more considerately.

Liston had plenty of a raw power but the discernible loss of hand speed in later age still took from his prime punch - his prime hand speed having aided and abetted his raw power in some measure - including his ability to follow up in due time before his hurt opponent got away from him.

If Liston had been whipping in punches with the speed he displayed against, say. Williams, Chuck would’ve been stopped much sooner, likely with several KDs involved - if not suffering an actual outright KO loss before the ref stepped in.

 

I must be missing something. I’m going to dust off my Cinderella Man Boxset and re-review each and every one of Jim’s fights. I’m open to having my mind changed.

 

Braddock fell off mountains Usyk could never have approached.

 

It's from my old memory of listening to that 1962 title fight. I was 14 and in shock at the knockout -- I remember trembling -- for I was an ardent Floyd fan while Liston to me represented certain people, known and unknown, I feared in the segregated black neighborhoods of my youth.

After the fight I remember Floyd was interviewed in the ring, and he said in reply to a question, "He was too fast", and that stood out for me because Liston was never described as fast. I thought Floyd might be confused, after all he'd just been kayoed. Anyway, I still remember it. Could my 77-year-old mind be playing tricks? I guess it's possible.

 

This may well be true - but could he juggle kettlebells like Olek can or deftly punch a rubber ball at the end of an elastic band affixed to his head?

 

Yeah put Liston against Fury and see what happens.

No, he was shot and its not even up for debate, people just couldn't notice it because he KO'd an even more shot Helenius. Then he took 2 years off and got absolutely murdered by Parker and Zhang looking worse than he ever did. Like this is not even something we can have a discussion about, Wilder was shot, end of story.

They couldn't last that long as they didn't fight people half their size that stood no chance against them.

He is 39 and far more declined than Liston ever was. All this proves is that shot Liston's power > 3x shot Wilder's power. Prime for prime its not even a question who hits harder.

 

Top post!

 

Huh are you serious? Not being a jerk here but Braddocks just about one of the weakest heavyweight champions in history… he’s next to Ingo, Rahman and Baer type guys.

 

Thanks for sharing and if I’m not mistaken myself I do recall you previously mentioning you having listened to the fight live.

I’d put money on you being correct - since it’s a standout statement and it went against what you might’ve intuitively expected Floyd to have said.

I wonder if the radio broadcast still exists or at least a transcript of same. That’s something I’ll keep an eye out for and def. report back if I find anything.

 

Thanks Mac.

 

Liston, alike Big George, is very intuitive and accurate with some of his shorter punches.

Liston is much like Holyfield, in that his offensive skillset at all ranges and his overall skillset is likely underrated due other more prominent aspects of them as a fighter.

The short devastating hooks that Sonny caught Floyd with would have certainly come as a surprise to him - I don't think it's necessarily about how quick he is but moreso how good his timing is.

Sonny clearly shows great ability to change the trajectory of his punch to find the target whilst throwing in combination. Certainly not the fastest puncher but more than adequate with his placement and timing - combined with clear raw power, a more than formidable fighter.

 

This is just not true. Braddocks mix of size durability, skills and power would be a nightmare for all but the very best HWs who've ever lived. Whom the guys from this era are not.

 

Wilder's mum perhaps?

 

Who knows?

After I’ve completed my Cinderfella career review, Jolt’n’ Jim Braddock may well make it onto my Thinking Man’s Top 10 ATG list.

Of course Ingo will still proudly remain atop the heap.

He is the immovable GOAT - to understand same, all you need to do is think about it…and I mean think about it a LOT.

My rationale is - the harder you have to think about it, the higher rating you afford to the fighter in question.

Thus, Ingo will never be knocked off his rightful perch.