1991 George Foreman vs present day Daniel Dubois

Dubois outlasted Hrgovic and Miller in a brawl and took one of the hardest punches I have ever seen from AJ seconds before KO’ing him. It wasn’t his chin that failed him against Usyk, it was the fact that he was taking 2 million punches per round without being able to land anything back.

Also Foreman didnt beat a single fighter better than DDD in his comeback.

 

In general yeah he is, in a h2h sense absolutely not.

 

Fact , Usyk landed a grand total of 88 punches against Dubois. Your 2 million is beyond an exaggeration to the point of a bald face lie! Lol. Old Foreman threw and landed more punches against Holyfield. A much better fighter than Usyk, and Dubois isn't on the same planet as far as skills go. So stop with that nonsense.

The reason Dubois couldn't land cleanly on Usyk, is simply because he didn't have the ability to keep his lead foot on the outside of Usyk lead foot. Not because Usyk is fast or slick ( He isn't) Dubois simply don't possess the technical ability in the heat of combat to do it. Plus Dubois telegraphed damn near all his punches, again a sign of his rudimentary skill level. He also rarely changed his head level. Usyk could've hit him with his eyes closed, again, an obvious sign of his basic skill level.
"Old" Foreman demonstrated repeatedly against Michael Moorer ( A better fighter than Usyk) his ability to keep his lead foot outside of his, eventually being in position to set up the ko.
At 45 yrs old. Foreman knew how to fight, used different punch power output, paced himself perfectly.
Being bigger isn't the end all in a boxing match.
Something I thought some of you would've learned with the success of Usyk
Especially with men over 200 - 210 pounds.

 

I don't know what to say if you actually believed the 2 million punches bit lmao, Usyk landed double the amount of punches Dubois did, the frustration of that is what caused Dubois to get TKO'd.

When they stood and brawled, he couldn't do anything whenever Holyfield moved a little.

Not even remotely close.

He doesn't need to be.

I love how you write this as if it's a monumental combat analysis when it just circles back to what I said. Dubois tried to get that lead foot out many times, he couldn't because Usyk kept out-moving him and circling out while landing hard left crosses and at times even combinations.

He didn't. He actually boxed quite well in that fight, old Foreman could never move and box like that.

Usyk would have done the same to Holyfield and Old Foreman as well.

You should geniunely delete your account if you think Moorer was a better fighter than Usyk.

Yea because Moorer fought in a straight line and started trading with Foreman late into the fight. Foreman wouldn't even touch him once if Moorer actually leant on his southpaw angle and moved, and he wouldn't even be able to see Usyk if they fought.

And?

This is not what I said at all, Dubois is bigger AND has the skills to win.

 

Here's the issue.

KO artists like Stewart, Morrison, they both fought on the backfoot.

After Stewart got floored twice he went backwards.

Morrison fought an overly cautious fight out of character for him.

So unless Dubois fought a more intelligent fight and on the backfoot I'm not sure I'd like his chances trading punches with Big George.

Dubois quit after a jab from Usyk can you imagine Foreman’s ramrod jab hitting him ?

We have to wait and see how Dubois's career plays out I'm still not totally sold on him atm.

Miller was a 300+ pound blubberball.

Dubois headbutted Hrgovic consistently that win has a bit of an asterisk for me.

Good win over Joshua but Joshua seems to be at the end of his career now.

 

Foreman was landing pretty much over 50 percent of his jabs in every fight he had in his comeback even in his losses.

Usyk only landed just over 50 jabs vs Dubois so it wasn't a high impact fight with Dubois taking alot of punishment.

Foreman’s jab is one of the hardest jabs in history even older and slower he still landed at a very high percentage with his jabs as I said.

If Dubois quit after 50 jabs from Usyk I can't imagine how he would feel taking 50 ramrod jabs from Foreman.

If Foreman can land over 100 jabs on a prime Holyfield landing at over 50 percent overall he can certainly land his jab consistently on Dubois.

 

As I said, that's not why he got TKO'd.

Foreman couldn't even touch Holyfield when Holyfield moved and boxed, and his opposition doesn't really come close to Dubois outside of Commander Vander. And even though Holyfield is a better fighter Dubois is a much harder opponent for Old Foreman.

This is the exact line of thought that caused people to predict Hrgovic and AJ beating Dubois. You people need to stop looking at stats and watch the matches themselves, otherwise I can just say Morrison outboxed Foreman without getting KO'd so Dubois does as well.

Dubois was missing a lot on Usyk and taking literally twice as much as he was dishing out while visibly struggling to keep up with Usyk's pace. He didn't even seem hurt when he got TKO'd, just tired and frustrated.

Foreman could only land on Holyfield when Holyfield was in his face spamming 15-20 punch combinations with his face and body wide open. Whenever he boxed and moved Foreman wasn't a threat.

Foreman never fought anyone his size in his comeback. Especially against opponents of Dubois' level he always had something of a 30 - 40+ lbs size advantage because he wasn't a hard man to outpoint due to his age and basically all he had left to offer was his physical power. When he was up against a top-level boxer his solution was to keep marching forward through punches with his left jab and hoping that they gave him an opening for a KO shot or that he got the decision on damage and activity, this wouldn't have worked against people that matched his physicality and power. Dubois is one of those people. Morrison didn't really do anything Dubois couldn't to a better extent.

 

But that is the exact reason why he got TKO'ed ? he voluntarily went down on his accord after a jab ? it wasn't a high impact fight nor was Dubois taking alot of punishment.

Yes case in point Holyfield used alot of movement boxing and moving in arguably one of his best performances of his career and he still ate over 100 jabs from Foreman.

I disagree Dubois is a harder opponent in what way ?

Holyfield has much better boxing skills, better movement, better varied offence, better chin, more heart.

Dubois would be right infront of Foreman hence that plays into Foreman's strengths more so than an opponent who uses mobility.

You tried exaggerate the stats by claiming "Dubois got hit with a million punches by Usyk" and when @Flash24 correctly identified the stats as a low output fight now you're dismissing stats because it doesn't favour your argument.

I've never thought highly of Hrgovic and that fight has a bit of an asterisk over it considering Dubois headbutted Hrgovic over 20 times in the fight.

Joshua is a good win but he's also at the end of his career and he doesn't have the chin or recuperative powers of Foreman.

So basically what you're implying is when a fight isn't going Dubois's way he has a tendency to quit ? and that's your argument ?

Ali or Holmes never beat an opponent the size of Dubois does that mean Dubois would be favoured over them aswell ?

I wouldn't exactly call Dubois a "top-level boxer" before the 1st Usyk fight he wasn't even rated in the top 10 and he was considered a chinny fighter with a suspect heart after being floored 3 times by Lerena.

He's had a decent run of form in the last year or so but the jury is still out how good he actually is that remains to be seen.

I'm not ready to jump on bandwagon and claim he beats Foreman just yet.

 

Yeah that's what Im saying, he didn't go down because he was hurt, AJ and Hrgovic and the like hurt him more, he went down because he was getting dominated.

I said the exact opposite of this, Holyfield fought extremely foolish, he kept trying to stand, trade with Foreman and go for a KO to prove a point when he was having his best moments when he boxed. Foreman could barely touch him when Holyfield was boxing, all those jabs came when Holyfield was standing in front of him trying to knock his head off.

Holyfield was 50 lbs lighter than Foreman and stood in front of him almost the whole night. Dubois is as big and strong as Foreman and also has the movement and skills necessary to outbox him if he needs to. Foreman avoided big strong men in his comeback for a reason, he couldn't afford to give those advantages away, he'd have nothing left.

No it doesn't, light-hitting smaller movers play more into Foreman's strength more because he can just walk through their shots, push them back and can hang in the scoring via landing much heavier shots or simply advancing forward. Dubois is as powerful as Foreman and also has a huge speed and mobility edge. He'd also outpoint Foreman but unlike against Holyfield or Moorer, Foreman wouldn't be able to just bulldoze over a 6'5 250 lbs power-puncher.

Then you didn't even understand my argument, I was arguing that Dubois got TKO'd because he quit due to getting dominated without being able to do anything. Usyk landed twice as much punches as Dubois did.

Nice cope but Hrgovic was the favorite and he beat the brakes off of Dubois early on. "Glass Chin" Dubois took it all and TKO'd him late.

Bro Im not even arguing the quality of wins here lmao, actually read my comments before you answer, AJ hit Dubois with a gargantuan punch and Dubois just took it. Then he KO'd AJ seconds later. I'm saying that Dubois can take Foreman's shots just fine.

My argument is that Dubois is plenty tough unless he is fighting with someone that is completely dominating him with volume. Foreman would OBVIOUSLY be more akin to a Miller or a Hrgovic than Usyk. He isn't the type to break someone with volume, he is a hard-hitter with no legs, Dubois handles that type just fine.

Another irrelevant point that has no correlation to the topic at hand, Foreman ain't Ali or Holmes.

Almost like he improved over time.

It doesn't really, he beat Miller who was a good fighter, stopped Hrgovic as an underdog who was known as the toughest HW of today and was the most highly regarded prospect, and he beat AJ right after people were saying AJ was having his second prime.

90s Foreman doesn't really take Ali to beat.

 

Dubois wasn't getting dominated though ? Usyk wasn't even landing in double digits for power punches per round. Usyk was clearly winning but it was hardly a domination. And i can't remember another notable Heavyweight who stayed on the mat and voluntarily quit after a soft jab.

Holyfield occasionally stood and traded but for the most part used his movement/boxing skills and was rattling off quick fired combinations.

Can Dubois replicate that ? no i don't believe he can.

It doesn't matter whether or not Holyfield was lighter than Foreman, Holyfield is still a better H2H Heavyweight than Dubois. Just like Usyk is a better H2H Heavyweight than all the Heavyweights now despite being considerably smaller.

Dubois may well be as big and strong as Foreman but he's also quit in 2 fights and there is still question marks how good Dubois actually is.

Holyfield is hardly light hitting he was the first Heavyweight to drop iron chinned Heavyweights like Mercer, Bowe, with single shots.

How is Dubois going to use mobility and outbox Foreman ? where is the evidence of Dubois doing this in any of his fights ?

And as i said you're exaggerating Usyk's dominance he wasn't beating up Dubois round after round. Yes he was clearly winning but Dubois definitely showed a lack of heart quitting after a soft jab in a low impact fight.

Cope are you serious ? who has rated Hrgovic highly since the Zhang fight ?

Yes there was hype over Hrgovic early in his career but then alot of his flaws come to light vs Zhang in a fight that ended up being a controversial decision.

Since that Hrgovic has been lackluster and alot of people on this forum haven't been impressed with Hrgovic for the last few years.

Dubois dominated Joshua from start to finish who had no legs after the 1st right hand in the 1st round which done him in. Yes Dubois took 1 right hand from Joshua but it still clearly bothered him he was wobbled by it and it looked like for a second Joshua might pull off a miracle comeback.

Foreman has a much better chin and recuperative powers than Joshua and he would be landing more than just 1 right hand on Dubois.

I don't see how you can base your whole argument that Dubois can take multiple punches from Foreman because he took 1 right hand from Joshua ? and that right hand also wobbled him quite badly in a fight he was dominating BTW.

It's not irrelevant at all ? you're hyping up Dubois based on 1 solid year in his whole career and no one even knows his true ceiling yet ?

I'm still not totally convinced of Dubois suddenly being a much improved fighter we'll see vs Usyk.

Miller was a 300+ pound blubbleball.

Hrgovic has a good chin but has been unremarkable in the past few years.

Joshua is a good win on paper but he's also at the end of his career and he doesn't have the chin of Foreman.

And Dubois doesn't really take a special fighter to beat him.

 

Foreman via shoving.

 

He lost every round and damn near all the shots he landed were softer than Usyk's.

Irrelevant.

He did the opposite, he spent the majority of the match trading and only boxed when he got pressed too much.

He doesn't need to. Like at all.

Ali is better h2h than Foreman, who handled Norton easier? Styles make fights, old Foreman would struggle more with the Dubois type than the Holyfield type, hence he spent his whole comeback avoiding anyone that could match him in power and durability.

No there isn't and the situations he quit in has no relation to Foreman.

He is in comparison, Dubois would literally kill Foreman if he landed that many shots on him.

Where was the evidence of Morrison or Stewart doing any of that before they did? Foreman was a 40+ year old man that came off of a 10 year retirement and obesity, any good boxer that could move and jab a bit could outbox him easily, it was the physicality that they had to watch out for. Dubois doesn't have to do that.

Yes he was. Where was the lack of heart when he walked through the bombs of Hrgovic and Miller and outlasted them both in toe-to-toe slugfests? Why do you keep bringing up Usyk when Old Foreman fights literally nothing like that? It's volume that breaks Dubois, Foreman doesn't have any of that, he is a power-puncher and Dubois showed twice that he has no trouble in a toe-to-toe brawl. You keep making these irrelevant comparisons between different circumstances.

Literally everyone, hence he was the favorite.

Zhang ended Joyce's life in his best wins right after losing to Hrgovic, it was a win aged well. Again, he was literally the favorite in the fight. You can't ignore this fact forever.

I don't care, at the time he was very highly regarded. People dropping off the bandwagon is caused by Dubois' performance in the first place. Give the guy his credit.

Missing the point as always, I literally don't care, that punch he took from AJ was harder than anything 90s Foreman can throw and Dubois ate it.

Sounds like Hrgovic.

Of course you don't, you either don't read the posts at all or have serious comprehension issues. Dubois can handle Foreman's punches because he walked through right hands from Hrgovic (82% rate) and walked through absolute bombs from Jarrell Miller (84% KO rate) in toe-to-toe slugfests. Foreman couldn't even take Morrison out.

How does ANY of this relate to my argument?

I know, this is the biggest problem in boxing, nobody gives the fighters credit until they are retired. I don't know what more Dubois could have done since then to show he is better. I guarantee if he KOs Usyk you'll come here and say "well Usyk was old, Im still not convinced!!!"

You can't really call anyone blubbleball while defending 90s Foreman.

No.

He's at the end because Dubois ended it.

True, it only takes bums like Usyk.

 

lol - “Bro Dubois could never take a punch from GF he quit from a jab” Dubois:

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These three fighters he ran over, all who landed there leather would be shamelessly ducked by GF In his comeback, all three would likely also beat comeback Foreman who beat???? Moorer?… DDD quite literally has a more proven chin then GF, GF has what Morrison on the back foot? Holyfield? A KO to Ali and… almost being creamed by Lyle?

 

Yes he was clearly losing the fight but he wasn't getting dominated or beat up it was a low impact fight and Dubois showed a lack of heart quitting after a soft jab. As i said give me another example of a notable Heavyweight quitting after a soft jab i'll wait.

No it isn't irrelevant at all it shows Dubois has a suspect heart/mentality and the fact you can't give me another example i'll take that as a concession to that point.

Nope he boxed and moved the majority of the time and traded in spurts it was one of Holyfield's better performances.

You said Dubois has the movement skills to outbox Foreman ? again where is the evidence of Dubois doing this in his career ? Not only does Dubois not even come close to Holyfield's movement or boxing skills. He certainly hasn't got the heart or chin of Holyfield either.

I don't see how a puncher who would be right infront of Foreman who has a suspect heart as a more favourable match up.

Dubois got hit with only 88 punches by Usyk which is low impact alot of them not even power punches.

Foreman was losing clearly to Holyfield took x4 times as many punches took far more damaging punches and he never stopped trying nor did he decide to call it quits because the fight wasn't going his way.

I think it has alot of relation to Foreman who would test Dubois's heart and chin which can be suspect. Foreman himself has a granite chin and i seem to remember Joyce who had a very good chin who was nothing special boxing skills wise. Just plodding forward taking Dubois's punches grinding him down until he stopped him late on.

So you're saying there's no evidence of Dubois doing it in his career good to know.

He was losing the Hrgovic fight until he headbutted him repeatedly again that fight has a bit of an asterisk over it. And the fact Hrgovic was able to easily hit Dubois with right hands seems to suggest Foreman would have no issues landing his right hands either and he's a bigger puncher than Hrgovic.

Usyk didn't beat him with volume though ? why do you constantly keep dishonestly trying to claim that ?

Usyk only threw 359 punches vs Dubois going into 10th round that is not a crazy pace at all. Foreman who wasn't known for his high workrate in his comeback threw 444 punches vs Holyfield. So had Usyk completed 12 rounds with Dubois averaging the same pace he would've had similar numbers to Foreman, which puts into perspective it wasn't a high pace at all nor was he a high impact fight as Usyk only landed 88 punches like you're trying to dishonestly trying to claim.

Or maybe i just don't have flavour of the month mentality ? and like to see how things play out a bit until i start hyping a fighter up ?

For example there was some threads on here when Joyce beat Parker like....."Joyce vs Prime Tyson 88" and alot were picking Joyce.

I also see threads like "Joyce is the new George Foreman"

He was the favourite because Dubois was largely unproven he was still known as the fighter who quit twice and was floored 3 times by Lerena. That doesn't mean Hrgovic was highly thought of because he wasn't since the Zhang fight fans haven't been impressed with Hrgovic.

I don't care if you don't want to hear it's a fact.

Hrgovic was hyped up prior to the Zhang fight then alot of his flaws were exposed in that fight. Since that he's been largely unimpressive with boxing fans not being impressed with Hrgovic for the past few years and it's got nothing to do with the Dubois fight.

What about Hrgovic sleep walking vs McKean for 12 rounds ? when prospect Itauma finished McKean in like 60 seconds ?

I'm not missing the point at all you're just making a silly argument.

Your argument is that Dubois taking 1 right hand from Joshua that wobbled him quite badly in a fight he dominated up until that point. Is evidence that he could take multiple right hands from Foreman in a tougher fight ? no i'm not missing the point at all i just think your argument is nonsense.

Yeah maybe Dubois can headbutt Foreman 20+ times and earn a win that way.

Hrgovic has a 77 percent KO ratio not 82 and he's only had 19 fights and hasn't had any real impressive feats at world level with his power.

Miller has a 84 percent KO ratio yes but again he hasn't made an impression at world level with his power. His best stoppages are over a 42 year old Adamek in his last ever fight, and Browne who has been stopped in all 6 of his losses.

Foreman is a better fighter than both of them with better power aswell.

Morrison fought a cautious tactical fight using mobility which was out of character for him because he realized the danger of Foreman's power.

Yes i can Miller is 300+ pounds that is a disgrace to be at that weight.

Yes.

Or maybe it's because he's 35 years old and hasn't had a real notable win in years ?

Nice attempt at sarcasm but he lost to Joyce aswell ? who recently lost to a 40 year old fringe contender Chisora ?