Oleksandr Usyk vs Muhammad Ali primes

Being the more fundamentally sound competitor doesn't necessarily mean the better competitor. As AJ Liebling said solid instruction will carry a young man a long way but unearned natural ability has much to say about it.

 

The difference in speed is indeed very meaningful.

 

Between prime Usyk and Ali? Nah not really, if there is it isn’t much, Usyk does a lot of amateur tap tap BS but when he lets his hands go he’s fast, Ali was quick but the old footage skews it a little IMO like when I watch a more upscaled version of Ali vs Terrell? Eh he’s very quick but not quite what it says on the tin.

 

Have to agree to disagree. Ali's hand speed was a legit 10/10 and Usyk's is an 8 or an 8.5 at best. Ali vs Williams is by far the quickest performance i have seen from a heavyweight. I don't think any heavyweight since Ali with the exception of Mike Tyson comes close to him in speed including Usyk.

Usyk looks very quick in comparison to the guys he is fighting. He is fast but not lightning fast.

 

Usyk wins, and it will be easier than people think. Ali has nothing that can trouble Usyk; his speed means nothing against someone who can time him, which Usyk undoubtedly will. Usyk's feints are the best of any heavyweight and will trip up Ali, who is entirely reliant on his timing and size to win. Usyk will offset both and find a home for his jabs and straights while Ali clowns around getting schooled.

 

I don’t think it matters, it’d be a small margin that we can’t really prove anyway. You’ve got a good point perhaps with him fighting SHWs looking quick but he was faster at 200lbs (210-220? Fight night) so I disagree there.

 

Feints do not work nearly as well when you are fighting the most durable heavyweight in history. Usyk struggled with Michael Hunters speed early on and Hunter isn't 10% of what Ali is.

Truth is Usyk has little to trouble Ali with other than his jab. His power, which scares the likes of Joshua and Fury, would do very little vs Ali who beat more power punchers than anyone else. Once Usyk will be getting nailed by fast lead right hands, he will struggle to adjust and none of his tricks would do well. Easy? Lol.

 

Muhammad Ali via decision.

Usyk has proven himself as a great. Hes conquered and established lineage in two weight classes and has showcased his skills along the way. But for as good as he is, his speed and ring mastery has mostly been displayed against 240+ lb men and many of whom in their mid thirties. A 25 year old Muhammad would introduce him to an entirely different dynamic of the likes he’s never seen.

 

Joshua and Fury are veritable giants. Why were they intimidatimed by Usyk's power?

 

because they have average chins? And Usyk has above average power. Being a giant doesn't mean you have a great chin. Fury was knocked down by a featherfisted Cunningham. Not exactly an ATG chin.

 

You better be careful. Posters are going to bring up Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper.

 

He also beat AJ and Fury

 

So the same Ali who was dropped by Henry Cooper (a natural light heavyweight) and arguably lost to Doug Jones is somehow going to walk through punches that rock modern super-heavyweights? That logic really doesn’t make any sense.

You're also misunderstanding how feints work. They are especially effective against a rhythm fighter like Ali because they are designed to destroy timing. His entire defensive style relied on timing his opponent's attack. Once Usyk’s feints take that away, Ali's defense falls apart, leaving him open for Usyk’s punches. How is he going to land his lead right hands if he can't even anticipate Usyk's real punches? BTW lead rights hands are not great punches against fighters with good defense like Usyk, they're easy to see coming and take away if you know they're coming.

And bringing up Michael Hunter is a weak point, that was years ago, and Usyk still adjusted and won decisively and has improved a lot since then. More importantly, Usyk's timing and feints are the perfect kryptonite for a fighter like Ali, who thrived on physical and athletic advantages he simply wouldn't have against a modern heavyweight like Usyk.

There's nothing in Ali's toolkit that Usyk hasn't already seen and systematically dismantled.

 

Feints stop working when your chin is really good? Wtf does that mean? Oh the ever present “lead right hand” that basically no one here knows anything about, they just hear it, just like “Oh man Ingo has a sneaky right hand” “Listons hook off the jab!” - I hear the commentators to brother, stating the obvious isn’t the same as understanding. How does Ali use the lead right hand should be the feature of the post not just vaguely saying it’ll do the works lol.

 

Usyk imo is the best HW I’ve seen in my life time. Him Lennox and prime Tyson all close. I’ve been saying for years I think Usyk is the best fighter alive and thought he would win the HW title. He did better than I thought. The man does not have a weakness but I do wonder how he does against a smaller Tyson, Frazier, Rocky type. Would have been great if him and Povetkin had met years ago. I’d prob edge out an extremely close Ali decision both at their best. Just because he was more proven against all types.

side note Usyk reminds me of a bigger faster better defensively southpaw version of Quarry.