Who hit the hardest: Ali, Holmes, or Usyk?

Frazier must hit harder then DeJohn and be a helluva puncher… he stopped Chuvalo in 4 rounds.

 

No it does not. Certainly not at heavyweight level

this is like saying a 260 lb man automatically hits harder than a 220 lb man.


There is a law of diminishing returns. Tyson Fury at 270 lbs is not more durable than a 230 lb McCall. Or a 215 lb Holmes.

240 lb Joshua is more more durable than Ali or Foreman.

Fury has been down 8 times in 37 fights. Holmes was down 3 times in his first 50 fights. Ali was down 3 times in 60 fights.

by no means are Fury, Joshua and Dubois more durable than Foreman, Lyle, Bonavena, Liston etc. I don’t care if they weigh 300 lbs. they all have average chins and hurting them is no extraordinary feat.

 

https://www.boxing247.com/news/Ken-Norton-Interview.php

In this interview, Norton mentions that Ali was stronger, though not necessarily more powerful. He also reflects on how he lost his passion for the sport after feeling he was robbed in their third fight. Norton adds that had he prepared for Holmes with the same intensity he brought to his bouts with Ali, his performance would have been significantly better.

In his book, (will try to find online excerpt) he states that Ali hit harder and had the better jab.

 

Yup. My order is Usyk>Ali>Holmes.

 

That's a total apples-to-oranges comparison. Foreman and Liston, who you claim are more durable then fighters today, were hurt and dropped by fighters who were 40-50 pounds lighter than the guys fighting today. You can't just assume their chins would be as durable against modern super-heavyweights. The simple fact is that today's heavyweights are bigger, stronger, and consistently fighting opponents with far more size and power than was common in past eras, so of course they get hurt more.

 

And Fury was dropped by a 207 lb Cunningham and a 212 lb Wilder.

Foreman was dropped a total of 4 times. So yes, he is more durable than Fury or Joshua or Dubois.

Its not an apples to oranges comparison. At heavyweight, there is a limit to both durability and power.

Like i said, smaller heavyweights (Foreman, Holmes Ali, even slightly bigger ones like McCall) are a hell of a lot more durable than the larger men Usyk has rocked.

Look at the punchers Ali faced. Foreman once, Lyle once, Liston twice, Frazier 3 times, Shavers once - i don't care how you slice it, he has had far more fights vs big hitters than Fury. Fury had 3 fights vs Wilder and one vs Wlad, and i will throw in Whyte just to be nice. By no means is Fury fighting better punchers than Ali and yet he has been down 8 times compared to 3 times despite having 22 less fights.

At heavyweight, the majority of the best punchers in history weighed between 210-225 lbs at their peak. Foreman, Wilder, Mike Tyson, Tua, Shavers, Liston etc. Some weighed much more like Lewis or Wlad. And yet the majority of the biggest hitters clearly weighed between 210-225 lbs which shows there is a limit to how much power a human body can produce.

 

Top post. I'd add "and take" to the last sentence to close the show.

 

The problem with your whole argument is that we can't know for sure how durable guys like Foreman are because they never had to take punches from modern super-heavyweights. Foreman was dropped by Jimmy Young who's not exactly a power puncher and was almost knocked out by Ron Lyle, a guy who weighed 210 lbs. You're just assuming that a chin tested by men that size would hold up against the power of a 250 lb Anthony Joshua or Daniel Dubois. That's a massive leap in logic with no real proof.

 

lol . Actually think Frazier IS a harder hitter than Dejohn but I guess that’s subject to opinion which I won’t argue against

 

Chuvalo put Foreman and DeJohn on the same level of power… that’s just his opinion doe, not saying you’re wrong.

 

And I won’t argue with chuvalo. But honestly some of these claims by fighters about who hit them the hardest leave me questioning some things. I mean foreman beat the living dog snot out of chuvalo. Dejohn did nothing like that to him. But what do I know ?

 

He went life and death with 210 pound Steve Cunningham calm down. Fury even admitted it was his toughest fight post Wilder trilogy. If Fury had dominant wins over a bigger sample size of skilled cruiserweights maybe you'd be on to something

 

Ali went life and death with lil 185lb 'enry Cooper. Kinda hard to judge the chins of that generation of fighters because they didn't fight against a range of modern light heavyweights.

 

All things considered, big guys tend to absorb punishment better than small guys. It has been tested.

 

Cunningham was featherfisted, Cooper was known for his powerful left hook, even against much bigger men. Cooper likely hits harder than Steve Cunningham, plenty of light heavyweights hit harder than Steve Cunningham, Joe Smith Jr for example. He hits way harder than Steve and he's about the size of Cooper


The what about ism diversion tactics fall flat. Especially when Fury is the one who got dropped by a featherfist the size of Ali. That's just objective

Tend isn't the rule. Trend is a better term and it's failed plenty of times