Oleksandr Usyk vs Riddick Bowe - who wins?

Fury didn’t take Wallin seriously at first, he was just supposed to be a tune-up. Once he got cut he woke up and dominated the guy despite Wallin blatantly cheating and using his glove to widen the cut.

Bowe’s inside game flopped the first time he tested it against someone his size that knew how to fight in the clinch (Golota).

There’s multiple proof, Fury has a higher KO rate in better wins against bigger men, is much bigger than Biggs himself and has knocked Wilder out cold and bruised Usyk up almost as bad as AJ did in their rematch.

Ngannou was an off-night unless you believe he can give a tough fight to Usyk. His punch output was pathetic because Wlad didn’t throw anything against him due to how confused he was, Bowe would and give Fury plenty of opportunities to counter.

Wilder would drop Bowe as well if they fight 3 times.

Fact of the matter is, Bowe was more or less a size bully with good inside skills who had no defense and no long-range game beyond a good (but inconsistent) jab. He would be the smaller guy in this fight and Fury would outbox him easily. He’d jab the hell out of Bowe, land his left hook and right hand whenever he wants to and Bowe’s lumbering feet would never be able to get through the faster and rangier Fury’s distance control. His inside game? Nullified and smothered in the clinch. The fact that all you can do is bringing up Fury’s lows says it all, you know as well as I do that Bowe’s got no chance against a guy that did what Fury did against Wlad and Usyk. Bowe should pray to god the Ngannou version of Fury shows up against him, otherwise he’d get embarrassed, as he did against any relatively big guy that could box a bit.

 

Bowe literally beat bigger fighters/guy than Bowe himself? Plus size doesn't make as much difference as people say in boxing.

Sure, I could see Fury causing Bowe problems but in the long-run Bowe would break down the crap out of Fury. No way that Fury is going to survive that constant skilled pressure and bodywork from Bowe. This isn't Chisora we are talking about who gave Usyk a very tough fight.

Fury simply doesn't have a better win than Bowe's two wins over Holyfield, nor Lennox either.

This is truly someone who is a true master of his craft and one of the best fighters of all time on a head to head/prime for prime sense.

 

Wallin won 4 rounds and rocked Fury at the end. Fury is susceptible to overhand rights and big guys who can work on the inside, that was Bowes bread and butter. Klitschko was what 39 ? I don't see Fury being able to take his jab away either, even tree feet limited Whyte had Fury on the ropes in spots. Fury can only outbox him, he can't do anything else realistically

Bowe bullied undefeated 6'7 Gonzalez with ease and walked him down with the jab. The fact is Fury fights nothing like Golota, Golota was on the inside, bobbing and weaving his head in the pocket, counter punching and staying shoulder to shoulder in spots. He also hits much harder than Fury, Fury would get wrecked up close. Of course you call all of Furys bad performances off nights, but any of Bowes bad performances mean he’s trash. It's double standards. Furys looked like crap in more fights and was never undisputed champion, factm Golota over Ngannou any day of the weak. Fury gets beat up down the stretch and trying to raise his workrate will only open him up.

 

Usyk has significantly passed Bowe.

 

Many of what you said here is completely irrelevant, Bowe beating a lumbering brawler in Gonzalez, Wallin landing one good punch or Whyte giving him a bit of trouble with pressure before getting flatline-KO'd doesn't mean anything for a Bowe vs Fury bout.

Fury out-jabbed Usyk and Wlad who even at that age was using his jab better than Bowe. Bowe struggled against anyone that jabbed with him (Biggs, Holyfield II, Golota etc). His defense at long range absolutely sucked, he couldn't slip a jab to save his life and was easy to catch with straight right hands which is how the inferior puncher Biggs had him reeling. He also had slow feet and moved in straight lines. The majority of this bout will be Fury out-jabbing Bowe, moving around him and landing lead left hooks and right hands and they probably won't fight up close all that much.

When it comes to inside-fighting, the things you said Golota did to beat Bowe, Fury also does them. Golota simply going shoulder-to-shoulder (Fury also did this against Wallin and Wilder) was enough to take away Bowe's uppercut. Fury can also throw combinations while mixing into the body and has a mean uppercut himself. But this is assuming that they'll even fight there in the first place. Fury is bigger and stronger than Bowe. He'd be able to control him in the clinch and not let him work. That's how Ngannou managed to nullify Fury's inside game, he couldn't box half as good as Fury in the pocket, but he was much stronger with a better clinch-game thanks to his MMA background, so he could simply not let Fury do anything in there. Fury can do the same to Bowe. Hell CW Bert Cooper nullified Bowe's inside game in the first round simply by pushing him back. Bowe had to switch tactics and work behind his jab because his legendary inside game was useless.

 

Yeah he gets beaten up ^^^

 

Wallin didn't land 1 good punch. He landed several. He landed more leather on Fury than anyone prior to Usyk and hurt him in the 12th round. Fury got rocked and got his with several follow up shots. Wallin is feather fisted, thats why aj and Chisora ran through him with ease. Wallin couldn't even outperform Breazeale in the pocket and needed to use the ring to outbox him.

Klitschko threw very little, only when he started to pressure Fury and let his hands go did he start finding success in the very late rounds. Bowe still found himself in the pocket lighting Biggs up several times. He stopped him. Not only that but out-jabbed him. Biggs is an Olympic gold medalist at least. More credibility than Ngannou. Wilder landed plenty of jabs in their first fight too, Furys defense is overrated time and time again. It's why he's been dropped 9 or 10 times, that and he's easy to knock down in general which is going to play a part in the scoring.

Fury isn't a power puncher like Golota which means he isn't going to discourage Bowe like Coetzer couldn't. Fury struggles to turn his punches over when he's throwing combinations, we saw that against Wallin and Usyk, its partly why he isnt powerful at all for his size and when he does he needs to be fully committed on the front foot like Wolder 2, Bowe would eat that slow sloppy version of Fury alive. Also doesn't go shoulder to shoulder and forehead to forehead against heavyweights who can also fight on the inside, nor does he move his head, change levels with his combinations and counter punch that frequently when in that close proximity. I've never seen it in my life. Link the vid. He bullied a 1 trick pony who has virtually no inside abilities and punch variety. Fury found himself on the ropes and in the corner numerous times against slower opposition like Whyte, Chisora, Furys size will work against him in this scenario and no actual reason Bowe couldn’t walk him down and punch with Fury when Furys throwing a combination and counter punching at range, and land jabs to the body. Fury is susceptible to right hands which Bowe used frequently against taller fighters. Furys workrate is also cut in half when he's fighting a puncher that can do mlre than throw 1 shot at a time, he wasn't very active against tree footed Whyte because Fury knew the danger and Bowe would take advantage of this

 

That's why I wanted a rematch so badly.

 

Great, more ABC logic that ignores circumstances. Wallin isn't "feather-fisted", no 6'6 240 lbs boxer is, he just isn't good at landing power-shots. He could open up and actually throw against Fury because Fury had a massive cut that Wallin was trying to rip apart illegally. AJ and Chisora would probably get stopped if Wallin cut them up and pressured aggressively like that, Chisora was lucky Wallin was gunshy after AJ. Even then besides the hook in 12th round literally everything he landed just annoyed Fury.

Yeah because he was getting outboxed. Fury literally said this in the build-up to their match, that Wlad was a typical Kronk-fighter and that he wouldn't be able to set up the right hand if his jab didn't land. Fury took away his jab so Wlad couldn't set up anything and had to desperately try to land the jab over and over again. He said f it and went all out in the 12th but each time he opened up Fury got the better of the exchanges and had him back down. If Wlad fought like that the whole match he'd gas without doing much and get TKO'd late.

Yeah, he did what he always did and overpowered a skinny guy that was troubling him at range.

Yeah barely, Fury out-jabbed Usyk and Wlad.

Ngannou doesn't matter in a jab discussion, Fury had no issues with his jab against him.

Anyone can land jabs, literal journeymen landed jabs on Fury and Bowe. Fact of the matter is Bowe was actually struggling with Biggs' jab, Wilder was getting out-jabbed and out-boxed at all times.

He got KD'd 7 times and 4 of those were against Wilder. 2 of those when he was inexperienced (Cunningham himself said Fury was green in their match) and 1 against Ngannou when he was off-balance with a shot to bits chin.

No idea what you're talking about, Golota wasn't a power-puncher either, he was a EE-style technician who favoured volume more. Fury unironically has shown more one punch power Golota.

Yeah not at all. He was turning plenty against Wallin (Christian Hammer as well for more examples) and punching him all over the ring in the middle rounds. He couldn't against Usyk because he was too fast and slippery. He could turn plenty against lumbering Bowe. Wilder 2 Fury could still move and bounce, Bowe could beat Wilder 3 Fury though. But all this is irrelevant because Fury wouldn't fight like he did against Wilder against Bowe anyway.

Of course you don't, I don't believe you watch any of the matches you are talking about, there's a reason why you are arguing with their resume. Anyway, go watch his knockdown on Christian Hammer. Fury went body-body then caught Hammer clean with an uppercut before throwing a 1-1-2 that knocked Hammer down. You can also watch pretty much the entirety of Fury's inside war with Wallin in the middle rounds to see all these techniques. You can see Fury blocking or dodging Wallin's shots up close before firing back with uppercuts and crosses, throwing hook-combinations that alternate between Wallin's body and head, smothering Wallin in the clinch when his cut starts bleeding or using his forearms to frame him off and control the distance at which they trade to set up straight right hands.

Who talked about Wilder?

Yeah because he could, those two posed literally zero threat to Fury in those positions, Fury just stood his ground and dominated them. He'd be more careful against Bowe who can actually cause damage in there. Usyk had a really tough time chasing and catching a past-prime Fury in the corner until Fury gassed from his pressure because Fury actually considered him a threat in there.

You are just listing the things Usyk did. Bowe can't do any of those. He doesn't have the feet to walk Fury down. He is not good enough of a counter-puncher to time in-between Fury's combinations and counter-punch him at range, Bowe's right hand could be seen coming from a mile away and he did his best work when he was leading, not responding. Jab to the body is all he can do of the bunch and it's not enough. Meanwhile Bowe will get consistently hit by Fury's jab. He's gonna get tagged by the right hand and the slapping left hook over and over again. He'll have trouble chasing down a bigger man that moves faster and better than he does. And if he closes the distance he's gonna have to deal with Fury smothering him in the clinch with his size and using his forearms to push him back where he can't throw his power-shots much like Bert Cooper did. Technically everything favours Fury here.

Excluding Cunningham and that other guy who Fury fought very early in his career, only Wilder's right hand could threaten Fury. Wilder who is 6'7, miles faster with his right hand than Bowe and throws it straight rather than looping like Bowe commonly did. So Bowe's right hand won't be that big of a deal.

 

Wallin was tagging him up and causing him problems before the cut. Chisora and joshua would have gotten rid of Wallin before the cut would ever get that bad, because they struggled less against him with or without the cut.

Fury lost the final round. Got outlanded and hit with a couple huge right hands. Wladimir was always risk adverse too unlike Bowe, I think it's quite irrelevant considering Fury couldn't take away Wilders jab, or Whytes. Fury kept him guessing and cautious with feints, i don't see this working against Riddick, but he would do well at range. Klitschko was also 39 and with his power his chances of winning would increase significantly had he let his hands go

"Overpower" is a meaningless term in regards to this match. Bowe never tried to overpower him with brute force. Bowe doesn't really fight like that otherwise he wouldn't have been pushed back against Cooper. He works his way in, always comes forward looking to break you down, but not with strength and weight. He wasn't really overpowering Holyfield, he was just better on the inside. You can argue he was brain damaged against Golota too, coming off those Holyfield wars and was a career heaviest. He did better in the rematch coming in at a lower weight amd dropped Golota but the damage was already done and every time Bowe had success Golota just punched him in the nuts.

And he still landed plenty of jabs. Someone of his ability shouldn't be doing anything with Fury

8, once against an mma fighter on his debut. Other times against Firtha, Usyk and Cunningham. Usyk couldn't drop aj once in 24 rounds just letting you know. Also the double standards are pretty ridiculous. Fury was supposedly inexperienced against Cunningham despite it being his 21st fight and but Biggs was Bowes 22nd and he wasn't inexperienced. Biggs had a better jab than Cunningham and Cunningham was arguably outboxing him prior to Fury's illegal tactics

Why not. He doesn't need to be Usyk. Whyte has terrible footwork and slow feet. Still managed to land jabs and have Fury on the ropes multiple times, wasn't far off the mark with his follow up overhand rights either. Chisora too, but Chisora is too 1 dimensional and can't work on the inside when Fury ties him up because he's too short. Fury would be making a mistake trying to tie Bowe up, he'd get lit up. He's also a better counter puncher than anyone Fury has ever faced outside of Usyk lol. That's a fact. Wilders right hand is hilariously more telegraphed and the speed on his right hand is overrated. Not only is he a 1 trick pony, he doesn't have a significant speed advantage over Bowe. Go back and watch the 1st fight. Bowe looked about as fast against Biggs. Larry Donald had faster feet than Fury and faster hands, and Furys size just makes him a bigger target, especially with jabs to the body. This heavyweight Mayweather you're trying to describe doesn't exist.

"Excluding the guys who landed several rights on Fury"

 

He cut him in the 3rd round and in the first two rounds neither side did much beyond empty jabs and grazing crosses. You are saying "tagging him up" as if he hurt Fury or something, he didn't.

Chisora got cut in the 5th round and was visibly gassed out and bothered by the cut since round 7 despite Wallin doing literally nothing other than throwing jabs. If AJ and Chisora got cut that deep that early and were up against an aggressive Wallin that tried to walk them down and illegally widen the cut they'd get TKO'd.

"Huge" right hands that didn't even faze him and Wlad was forced to stop and back off whenever him and Fury started exchanging. He'd get knocked out if he tried to fight like that the whole match, his cardio can't hold up.

This is not a plus on Bowe.

Except he did. In all of their matches. Wilder's jab and Whyte's jab were almost never a factor in their fights with Fury. They couldn't accomplish anything with it. Wilder had some success with his jab in the 3rd match for like 4 rounds, then started to get out-jabbed and bullied. Sugar Hill even said in the corner that he just needed to keep jabbing and Wilder would never be able to land a right hand again. And it turned out exactly as that.

So would the chances of him gassing out in a brawl and getting slept, which is probably why he waited that long to let go.

Bowe literally walked through the jabs and right hands of Biggs to get him. Why do you think it wasn't the same with Golota? He couldn't walk through the jabs and right hands of a 6'4 250 lbs guy without taking severe damage.

Not really, in fact Holyfield was out-landing him and battering him early on when they were standing toe-to-toe, with Bowe hanging purely by landing heavier punches. It was Bowe's heavy jab that turned the tide. It consistently wore Holyfield down.

He was coming off of a KO win over Holyfield in Golota 1. Let's say he underestimated Golota the first time, what about the rematch? Bowe came in shape and actually put up a good fight. He was still getting narrowly beaten even before the nut-shots. Bowe wasn't at his best but he wasn't a shot old man either, he was still seen as the best HW in the world and Golota simply exposed his limitations.

Wilder landed 40 jabs in the first match with 16% accuracy. 16 with 18.6% accuracy in the rematch and 9 for 8% accuracy in the rubber match. This is just a desperate argument by you, these are horrifically embarrassing numbers, Wilder would land more jabs than this against Bowe. That I guarantee you.

Cool, but Usyk didn't technically drop him and he fought with post-Wilder Fury whose chin was ruined.

Fury actually improved since then and was a different fighter in his prime, Bowe wasn't, he was just older with the same exact flaws he always had.

.....So? Bowe struggling with a good jab and good movement by a big guy is relevant for Fury, Fury struggling with a small slippery guy is not relevant for Bowe. Like at all.

Whyte landed 8 jabs with 11% accuracy. Fury landed double the amount of powershots with double the amount of accuracy as well before the KO (47 - 47% vs 21 - 21%). You are not even trying at this point, you are bringing up people Fury dominated and play onto the fact that they landed a punch or two here and there while getting manhandled. Bowe literally broke the record for most punches taken in a championship match against Golota. What do you think of that?

No he wouldn't. This is what you keep not understanding. Bowe can't fight on the inside when his opponent doesn't stand in front of him. The entire reason why he couldn't fight Cooper on the inside is because Cooper didn't stand and bang, he pushed Bowe back while winging power shots whenever he found an opening to keep him honest. Bowe couldn't do anything, and he wouldn't do anything to Fury either who can do the same more effectively since he isn't a CW like Cooper but a SHW that towers over Bowe himself. Bowe's punches won't be present when a bigger guy is leaning on him and digging his forearms to his face walking him back to the ropes.

Cool, I'd appreciate if you showed me some counter-punching masterclass by Bowe lmao.

Not really, people just say that because they know Wilder's not skilled so they don't watch his matches and think he is bad at everything. Wilder's right hand is one of the only things he has that is actually world class, he times it better than Bowe, throws it faster than Bowe and telegraphs less than Bowe. Bowe could never catch Fury with the right hands Wilder did. He throws looping shots that Fury would see coming from a mile away.

Bowe could barely even touch Donald so I don't see the relevance of this.

It also makes it easier to land on no-defense Bowe. Longer limbs and all.

I assure you you don't need a Mayweather to beat Bowe lmao.

Right I forgot that getting touched by a right hand in a 12 ROUND BOXING MATCH is extremely rare and doesn't happen unless you are weak to it.

Anyway, this is an Usyk vs Bowe thread, we are getting off-topic and I honestly don't care enough about this to trade essays with you so this is my last reply, I explained why stylistically Fury eats Bowe, you are free to disagree. Cheers. At least we both seem to agree Usyk kicks Bowe's ass.

 

Bowe could be very inconsistent and undisciplined but the version of him from the first Holyfield fight was better than anyone Usyk has faced imo, as was Holyfield himself.

 

He had Fury hurt in the 12. The cut didn't discourage Fury at all, it actually made him take the bulk by the horns

Doesn't this prove my point. Wallin cut him and still got outboxed and beat around the ring by a shot Chisora. Aj always destroys Wallin regardless of the circumstances

This doesn't disprove the case that Wladimir won the 12th and outlanded Fury the only round he tried to be aggressive. Fury isn't knocking Wlad out, are you joking ?

It will be here, Fury doesn't have the power to drop him or discourage him. Bowe will walk him down and several big shots, it's a question of how Fury comes when the only time he's had a big heavyweight pressure him like Wallin he struggled. Fury is stylistically closer to Gonzalez than he is to Golota even though he's better than both

And yet they still landed plenty, Whyte especially walked him down with his ponderous feet and cornered Fury numerous times, he didn't have the skill to take advantage, the punch selection, the workrate when forced to take initiative or the ability to work inside the clinch when Fury tried to lean on him.

Because Bowe was in the worst shape of his career and wasn't as successful against a power puncher who could hurt him for his mistakes at close range. Bowe walked through Gonzalez no problem, so it's styles rather than a size issue. Golota hits much harder than Fury and is superior on the inside, he was way better than given credit, had elite skill, great fundamentals but metally fell aaprt when things didn't go his way. Fury beat the dog crap out of Wilder and still needed to force a stoppage via towel, needed 11 rounds on the fron foot againt someone who can't counterpunch and only throw 1 righr hand at a atimd, wtill got floored twice in the second fight, but Zhang completely iced him with 2 shots
Because Golota fought him on the inside

And yet Bowe rallied and came back numerous times, only to get punched in the nuts when he was scoring on Golota. Do you realize how demoralizing and offsetting that is ? Getting hit in the nuts several times after landing successful combinations and outboxing him in spots ? Bowe was already subtly slurring his speeches at this point, he had taken too much damage between the Holyfield fights and the first Golota fight as you claim he had no defense.

Bowe would put Wilder in the morgue

Oh but "no defense" post Holyfield trilogy Bowe who also had wars with other fights like Coetzer didn't have a ruined chin and ruined reflexes ? Fury got dropped and wobbled by featherfisted 210 pound Cunningham

Usyk dropped him, he fell into the ropes with no resistance.

He really wasn’t, he was slightly premature and had a different hair cut. Fury has struggled with lesser fighters on numerous occasions like Bowe.

Same glass chin Whyte who got brutally KO'd by a 41 year old Povetkin in 5, limited and slow yet he still had the footwork to walk Fury down, land jabs and couldn't work on the inside everytime Fury clinched, which is something Bowe does well against taller fighters. Had he fought and beat aj who is most similar to Bowe then I might concor but that fight never materialized for some reason. Fury also admitted aj beat him up in sparring

Wilders speed is a myth. He is not faster than Bowe when throwing single punches, compare Bowe vs Biggs to Wilder vs Fury. Their speed is the same, it only seems that way because his right hand does more damage than Bowes the moment it lands. His right hand is very telegraphed, watch his lead hand everytime he throws it. Its the only punch he can throw apart from a jab backed by terrible fundamentals. Wilder got outboxed by journeyman Gerald Washington. Biggs was an Olympic gold medalist with actual world class ability but ruined himself with drugs and had mental issues

 

I think Usyk would be a very troubling style for Bowe and he could win by decision but a few things I'd like point out.

Bowe has incredible workrate for a big man for example he threw 786 punches vs Holyfield in their 2nd fight. None of Usyk's Heavyweight opponents have the stamina to compete with him in the later rounds unlike Bowe who wouldn't tire down the stretch.

Bowe doesn't have a suspect chin like Joshua, Dubois, or even Fury to some extent. So he wouldn't be cautious against Usyk he'd show more fire and attack Usyk.