Josh Taylor Retires

you are looking at Achievement Based ratings, which in the 1st instance are always, always inaccurate, 2cd they don't tell the full career stories of any fighter, not in full, not one, in 'actuality' & contextually with Who, What Place and/or Status fighters held and Opportunity, MOST Fighters Don't get equal opportunity, that is Boxing, which IS Bussiness and just like Bussiness - Ownership & Secured Investment all too often superseeding "Rules of Play" if you will.

Boxing is the most Nationalist, Partisan and Corrupt sport/BUSSINESS of them all.

Lloyd Marshall for example IS One of the Greatest Fighters of ALL Time, he never got near a title, and Marshall is just 1, one among Hundreds of Great, Great fighters.

H2H is the ONLY Way to 'compare' & rate fighters and even that is a very hard excercise to be absolutely right, Ranking Fighters in fact is impossible to get right and always will be. But 'achievement' based ratings are another animal and a poor one at that...

H2H Ratings look at a Fighters - Skill, Excellence, Opposition - Win or Lose, Weight & Fighting Up in Divisions and Longeviety at and among the Top.

19 fights, what if he would have fought even 30 times, nevermind more than that, many more... how many Catterall's would he have met.

Taylor IS a Good & Top fighter, NO WHERE Near among Scotland's TOP Greatest H2H fighters, sorry.

Look at Jake Kilrain foe example, a great, great fighter at the TOP for years, met everyone that counted, stepped up in weight, was a Top 10 Contender all day long and suffered a bit of the usual Boxing Bussiness or Politiking as Lenox Lewis calls it.

recognizes all the Taylors of the fight game, but remove achievement based placements from one's understanding, because it is completely inaccurate & incomplete - Always.

 

Trim the fat off, sum it up.....

Taylor, before he moved to London, incredible and at that time someone I genuinely thought would have given Crawford his toughest test.

Money, London, Davidson, those three things in any order, ruined everything.

 

he fell off sharp but he was one of the few Brits who was mean and nasty enough to take it to the Americans, get in their heads and beat them, not just put in a valiant effort and receive plaudits for being a plucky loser.

 

I don't know many, if any, that had a run like this on the way to undisputed...deffo one of my favourite fighters to watch

Jose Carlos Ramirez 26 0 0

Apinun Khongsong 16 0 0

Regis Prograis 24 0 0

Ivan Baranchyk 19 0 0

Ryan Martin 22 0 0

Viktor Postol 29 1 0

 

Being undisputed was great but the beating/humbling of O Hara Davies was my favourite Taylor moment. Hearn was in Davies corner and it was one of the first times that Hearn's bull**** was exposed.

 

You have just rambled a bunch of meaningless nonsense there .If you think that Josh Taylor isn't one of the best Scottish fighters ever then you need to follow another sport as boxing is obviously not for you.

 

As I said I don't want to be rude but your making yourself look daft. I could understand not having Taylor as the greatest or even 2nd or 3rd but to say he doesn't rank anywhere near the top of all time Scottish boxers list is just stupidity.

 

Oh, I know a wee bit about Boxing and I think you are either not reading & 'understanding' the Context & defencesive as a result of that.

1st off, the conversation is about Lists - which are always inaccurate, incomplete, often subjective, worse often Nationalistic and even worse yet often Pure Bias.

2cd - Taylor IS a Top Very Good fighter.

3rd - Scotland (and EVERY Country), has Dozens & Dozens of Great fighters, which 'Achievement' based lists can't include by thier very nature - "Achievements".

4th - H2H Lists, like Ratings (which aren't always accurate or free of influence themselves), are well thought out & Career Activity analysis... H2H Lists/Rating are MUCH More, a) require investigation & consideration and more importanly b) more 'inclusive' of many other Boxer's, who in their own right are either 'equal' too or 'better' even, owing to the careful invstigations of Careers, Era's, Comp, Fights and Longeviety.

H2H considerations have been around a long, long time, long before Mickey Mouse 'alphabet' titles, 17 Weight Divisions, Fewer Fight era's, Fighters fighting 'down' at 30 & 40 lbs less than their 'natural' weight, fewer Contenders meeting one another in 'elimination' type series, Champions not fighting these threats or supposed threats...

Boxing has become less of a 'sport' than ever it used to be, more Protected Fighters, External Corruption and Financial funny bussiness, which is a bad indictment, because Boxing has always been Partisan, Investment led and corrupt, so in this 'lesser' last 35 or so years period, it is pathetic.

There are still Good & Great Fighters out there, of course there is but 'most' will never be seen as to where they could be, others will be OWNED into Top Placements.

Scotland had ALOT of Great Fighters, long before the Alex Arthurs, Burns' and Taylors and most of these are Far Better, far better fighters.

take it or leave it.

 

You know your stuff when it comes to Scottish boxing. May I ask you how you think Josh Taylor would have done had he been under the tutelage of @billy nelson who did well with Ricky Burns?

 

How can I answer that, the answer has to be I don't know...

could Burns have done better with someone else, possibly, very possibly, but not always the case, he might have equally went backwards, it is immpossible to know. Nelson and Burns deserve credit.

In Boxing there have been cases where a Fighters Manager just wasn't quite big enough to ensure or garauntee his fighter the best matches to get him there, sadly that fighter gets held back, likewise there have been Managers who 'pushed' their fighters onto other Managers & Promoters to get the lad wehere he just might be.

In fact, I understand, though I don't know all the details precisely, but I understand Buchanan took off to the States and likewise Watt went south to get into position opportunity.

IF Boxing was a TRUE Sport and was followed to the Letter of the Rules i.e Proper Ratings after noted wins regionally & nationally, therefore having Honest & Proper Ratings, compelling great matches being made National & Internationally, again resulting in Proper Ratings leading to Proper Elimination Contests leading to Championship Contests, then we should needn't need to worry about all the corupt business.

So sadly we are left with 'some' fighters wearing a crown while some better fighters aren't.

all I can say, there was a period a few years back when Billy posted alot, he took a lot of Praise & Critisims, often not right, but one time I comment on Ricky being kind of One Dimensional with not enough lateral movement and 'mixing' up his ringcraft enough to prevent trouble, anyway Burns lost that up coming fight and a few fights later, like Taylor, who for my money for a period at least looked an unbeatable killer, untill he wasn't... anyway Billy took offence, which of course I was merely pointing out an observation.

anyway, there ARE LOADS of GREAT Scottish fighters, Dundee's little Jim Brady could have been a World champion in his own right and of course during Brady's era, the Lonsdale Belt was like a lesser World Title, unlike the last 40 years.

 

Not sure where to start with that. Your heads all clouded up and you need to clear it and think straight. What your saying is incoherent nonsense.
Everybody has their opinions but achievements are always going to be a major metric in how we judge a boxer and his abilities. Otherwise I could just name some random local boxers from my area or country who I think were great but never fought for world titles or achieved any kind of success.
Scotland doesn't have dozens of great fighters. If we did then you would have loads more world champions.
If boxing is so corrupt and only based on achievements then why bother following the sport?
Even if you consider that boxing has gone backwards what Taylor achieved and the ability he showed in fights is higher than the vast majority of Scottish fighters past and present. His ability was unbelievably good. Anyone with any boxing knowledge can watch Taylor and see how technically gifted he was.
What do you mean by H2H considerations? You suggesting Taylor would struggle with some Scottish boxer from the olden days who was so good he never achieved anything. We could all speculate who was better when it comes to imaginary match ups but Taylor beat top guys in his division and managed to win all four belts by beating guys that were mostly undefeated.
Why bother following modern boxing if you think it's such a poor standard compared with the past?
What's the point in even discussing this topic if you think some random Scottish fighter from distant past was better despite never achieving anywhere near what Taylor did.

 

Why do you bother following the sport then?

 

Your harking back to a guy who fought in the 30s. Even if you equate the Lonsdale belt to a world title Jim Brady would have to win 4 of them to achieve what Taylor did.
Why don't you consider the fact that the population of earth has more than doubled since the 30s and much more ppl try boxing or compete in boxing than ever before therefore making it tougher to get to the top.
Just because you think some random Scottish boxer from the 30s could have achieved big things doesn't mean ****. It's just speculation.

 

NO, you can't just name 'random' fighters and claim their great, No and that was never said.

they have to have been Top Noted fighters, who actually fought other & many top noted fighters, even World Champions & Contenders among them and that is 'how & why' they are judged and rated H2H.

a 20 fight guy from a weaker Era, with only a few real names on their Record, verses a fighter with Dozens & Hundreds of Fights against Dozens of Top Noted fighters on their Record ARE Better and in some case by a long shot.

that is Jake Kilrain, Jim Brady and most of the names I mentioned, plus a helluva alot more and throughout Boxing History those names go into the thousands of H2H Great Fighters.

you can't remove yourself from 'achievement' based thinking, that's fine go with it, but they are Bogus & Inaccurate indicators.

Look at Lloyd Marshall's Career, he is one of Dozens & Dozens.