Something I'm noticing about Holyfield's title defenses compared to Bowe and Lewis'

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by NoNeck, Jul 29, 2025.


  1. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,462
    7,197
    May 18, 2006
    COPE
     
    robert ungurean likes this.
  2. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,462
    7,197
    May 18, 2006
    Great post. Tore the OP’s flawed agenda based premise apart bit by bit.

    @NoNeck but steroids right? LOL
     
  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,104
    16,992
    Apr 3, 2012
    Show me Rick Bowie and Leonard Luis. I know of Evan Fields.
     
    Journeyman92 and MarkusFlorez99 like this.
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,104
    16,992
    Apr 3, 2012
    1. Tyson might’ve beaten Holyfield and totally derailed his legacy had the fight gone through.
    2. Holyfield fought Cooper, but Lewis, Biggs, and Moorer were all on the undercard. And Damiani hadn’t actually won a fight since losing to Mercer.
    3. Holmes was fine. He’d beaten Mercer. Foreman was a cash grab. Mercer, Bowe, and Witherspoon could’ve taken that spot.
    4. Moorer was way overrated and hadn’t beaten any contenders, but did get rocked by Stewart and Cooper.

    Similar to Foreman, there’s not much to look at with Holyfield when you talk about title reigns.
     
  5. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,217
    31,558
    Jan 14, 2022
    Maybe but Holyfield was chasing the most dangerous Heavyweight and that's not his fault Tyson pulled out of the fight and then shortly after went to prison.

    Cooper had a weeks notice there's no way Lewis, Moorer, are taking a big fight like that on a weeks notice.

    Yes Damani was coming off a loss but in the loss to Mercer he'd won every round and the punch from Mercer that finished off Damiani was a bit of a freak incident. Was Damani the best available opponent ? probably not but you can't expect to fight everyone.

    Foreman had stopped 24 opponents coming into Holyfield fight and was ranked in the top 10. You can't really begrudge Holyfield taking on Foreman who was a massive name at that point.

    Mercer probably would've fought Holyfield had he not lost to Holmes.

    I don't think Witherspoon would of ever got a big fight again after his relationship with Don King ended on a sour note. I think he was always going to be black balled from that point on that's just my view.
     
    Smoochie and robert ungurean like this.
  6. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    55,756
    10,124
    Jul 28, 2009
  7. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,403
    2,964
    May 17, 2022
    Thanks NoNeck for giving me a good reason to rate Usyk over Holyfield appreciate it buddy!
     
    Journeyman92 and ikrasevic like this.
  8. ipswich express

    ipswich express Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,711
    1,625
    Aug 22, 2004
    I've read some dumb **** on here over the years. This is up there with it.
     
  9. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,462
    7,197
    May 18, 2006
    Show me Holyfield testing positive to a banned substance in an official test? Tyson definely was banned for testing positive to a banned substance and admitted giving fake urine samples to avoid testing protocols.

    I suppose there’s the anecdotal evidence ie Holyfield’s premature balding but didn’t little Fluid Mayweather Jnr go bald the moment he went up in weight too? Hmmm….
     
  10. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

    11,109
    16,544
    Jul 2, 2006
    1) Holyfield beat a much better Tyson than Lewis did.

    2) Lewis defended vs Mavrovic who was not a top contender.

    3) Lewis defended vs Briggs who arguably had been gifted a decision vs a 48 year old Foreman. You are criticizing Holyfield for defending vs a 42 year old Foreman but in retrospect, in terms of ability, Foreman is better than Briggs even if he hadn't beaten a top 10 guy.

    4) Moorer may not have beaten a top guy yet but he was a tricky opponent by virtue of being a talented southpaw, a type of opponent Lewis never fought. (Lewis fought one journeyman southpaw but never a good one).
     
  11. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

    11,109
    16,544
    Jul 2, 2006
    Usyk has a good case over Holyfield due to his consistency. But at heavyweight, Holyfield fought a wider range of styles across a much longer time span.

    NoNeck didn't give good reasons. He credited Lewis with defending vs Briggs who was gifted a decision vs a 48 year old ancient Foreman while dismissing Holyfield beating a much better 42 year old Foreman. Yes, Foreman had technically not beaten a top contender. But guess what? In restrospect, in terms of ability, 42 year old Foreman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Briggs.

    Lewis also defended vs Mavrovic who was hardly a world beater. And he struggled more vs Mercer than Holyfield did.
     
  12. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,104
    16,992
    Apr 3, 2012
    Lewis did take a big fight against Vitali on short notice.

    Holyfield fought Foreman in a way that was performative. He let Foreman punch him, making Foreman look good, even though he could've just boxed and moved the whole time and had a totally one sided fight.

    There's also Bean, whom Holyfield foguth instead of guys like Tua, Ike, and Grant. And there's the Ruiz rematch, which Holyfield took instead of fighting someone like Byrd or Golota.
     
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,104
    16,992
    Apr 3, 2012
    Thread's not about Tyson, chief.

    But speaking of Tyson, he didn't gain twenty pounds of muscle, rapidly go bald, have his name linked to a big PED investigation, and end up in the hospital with major organ failure.

    It's also cute how you won't name the substance that Tyson tested positive for.
     
  14. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,104
    16,992
    Apr 3, 2012
    I think it's pretty close.

    Fury x2 is arguably better than mid 90s Tyson x 2.

    Beating Joshua twice is better than going 1-2 against Bowe.

    Usyk has won six straight title fights, something Holyfield failed to do.

    Duboisx2 and Chisora is worse than Dokes, Holmes, Foreman, Mercer, and Rahman.

    But Usyk also didn't go 1-1 against Moorer, 1-1-1 against Ruiz, and juice himself to the eyeballs that we know of.

    I'll give Holyfield a pass for losing to Lewis.
     
    Journeyman92, themaster458 and OddR like this.
  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,104
    16,992
    Apr 3, 2012
    1. Holyfield did like big money fights and titles at stake. He didn't like stiff challenges when he already had a belt and the money wasn't huge.
    2. And Lewis fought the other guys who were dangerous and didn't offer the same financial rewards as fighting thr Holmeses and Foremans of the world.
    3. Briggs was the lineal champion, prime, and quickly improving. He was more highly ranked than Foreman when Foreman fought Holyfield.
    4. There were no southpaws who posed much of threat to Lewis. Moorer went down like six times in the rematch and that's against Holyfiled's power.
     
    Journeyman92 likes this.