Is Joseph Parker too evolved for the 1970s ?

He likely has started juicing harder, lifting etc he’s 32 in his prime but his body composition is silly for his size, he has been involved with NZ gangsters in the past I doubt he’d see the issue with taking some juice to get a leg up.

 

Norton was not a B level guy. Norton is way way better than a Chisora who gave Usyk a hard time. Just because Norton was ko'd early in his career by a smaller guy does not mean he isn't durable or a B level guy. Only massive punchers like Shavers, Lyle and Cooney stopped Norton.

- Frazier is a 205 lb man at his peak. Not a light heavyweight. He was too stocky to drain down to 175. He would likely start at cruiserweight and move up.

- People don't just bring up "lead right hand" when Ali-Usyk is brought up. People mention that Usyk is not as fast as the best version of Ali. Even the best version of Usyk at cruiserweight isn't even close to being as quick as peak Ali. Its Usyk fans who are denying the enormous speed difference between the two men. Its Usyk fans who are refusing to accept that Usyk's stamina advantages over giant heavyweights do not apply to fighting smaller men like Ali, Holmes, Frazier etc.

No one is saying Usyk couldn't give Ali a hard fight or even beat him. What people are correctly saying is that Usyk is unproven vs speedy guys. None of the guys he fought at cruiser were fast by any means except Hunter, who actually gave Usyk a hard fight early on before slowing down. And Michael Hunter is no Ali or Holmes. Dismissing Ali or Holmes vs Usyk when Usyk has never dealt with guys who can match let alone surpass his speed is absurd. Just because he can beat slower giants who don't have great stamina doesn't mean he will easily dispense of guys who can match or surpass his speed and stamina.

Mairis Breidis gave Usyk a tougher fight than the giants. That fight actually merited a rematch. Why? Because Breidis, like Ali and Holmes, and unlike Fury and Joshua, had a great chin. Because Breidis, unlike Joshua and Fury, was smaller so he could match Usyk's stamina. And Breidis was not as fast compared to Holmes let alone Ali.

- I don't even have an issue with someone picking Usyk to beat Ali. I have an issue with people implying that it would be some easy feat for him to deal with a faster opponent when he has never once faced a man quicker than himself except maybe Hunter, who is no ATG.

- People aren't blinded by nostalgia. Rather, it is people here who are blinded by modernity bias. It is folks in the general forum who made absurd threads/posts like "Joe Joyce would beat Tyson" or "Usyk stops Frazier because he is bigger than Foreman" as if Usyk hits anywhere near as hard as Foreman let alone throws those type of uppercuts.

 

lol I get it brother, Do I redeem myself a little in your eyes by thinking Louis batters Usyk, Fury, Joshua etc?

 

Excellent post.

It seems to be the “new” thing now to claim that Usyk is/was fast as Ali to falsely negate an advantage that would obviously be in Ali’s favour.

Usyk has very good hand speed and he keeps them coming - but, in all objectivity, he clearly isn’t Ali fast.

 

NO!

but the Super Heavyweights as a whole have deevolved, 'most' are pretty poor or lacking things that were once more common place among Top Boxers & Fighters, which they, most of them, are NOT!!!

 

No chance

 

Parker is ok, nice win over Ruiz. But he hasn’t won a proper title in this bum era. Wbo interim belt ?
No way he wins the title in Ali’s era, he’d hold the Auckland town hall inter Australasia junior interim penguin association title.

 

Maybe I missed something but when did Parker test dirty?

 

Absolutely my pal!

 

If he's too big for the 70's fighters, that would of course not only also be the case for earlier decades but also the 80's and largely the 90's and the 00's.

The 80's top fighters were in the 210-230 lbs range, with the two best both below 220 for most of their prime perfomances. The 240+ guys came around in the late 90's and even then there were only a select few of that size, and they dominated the rest.

The Parker of today would have 50 lbs on Tyson, does that mean that Tyson stands no chance?

 

Great post.

Also, anyone who thinks Usyk beats Frazier should watch Usyk's performance against short, flabby Nistor in WSB. No disrespect to Nistor but he is far, far below the class of Frazier, yet he had Usyk on the ropes consistently and landed quite a few left hands. Usyk just has a problem with that style in general and Frazier is one of the best ever at it.

 

I could even understand people picking Usyk over Frazier although i think Frazier beats him. What bothers me is the logic. Usyk is maybe 5 lbs heavier than Foreman so you actually had people in the general forum claiming that he would stop Frazier because Foreman did.

Foreman has one of the top 5 uppercuts in boxing history with his right hand and one of the top 5 uppercuts with his left hand. Usyk rarely throws uppercuts and even when he does, he rarely throws them with a lot of power. And we have seen no evidence that he can throw them vs short pressure fighters. That uppercut is something Frazier was vulnerable to but only someone with the power of a Foreman or Tyson could take advantage of that.

There are people who think boxing has "evolved" so much that Usyk can simply dance away from Frazier, change his angles and foot positioning, and somehow Frazier will be unable to close the distance. Yes, the same Frazier who successfully cut the ring vs a 29 year old Ali could not somehow close the distance vs a slower fighter. Jesus. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Ali threw the kitchen sink at Frazier and couldn't deter him from coming forward. And Ali has a track record of stopping durable fighters. Yet you have folks repeatedly claiming that Usyk is a bigger puncher than Ali because he has hurt "big" heavyweights who they automatically claim are more durable than small heavyweights. Yes, because Lewis and Fury are more durable than Ali and Holmes. Dubois is more durable than Foreman or Tyson cause he is bigger.

The same people who accuse us of nostalgia are the most unreasonable posters of all. Just absolutely unable to ever admit their logic is faulty.

 

Usyk has stated that he actually has to eat a lot, near to the point of force feeding, to maintain his weight. If he was fighting in 15 rounders against 'smaller' fighters he would likely be the same weight as Ali imo.

People also forget that Joe had great head movement in his pomp. He also didnt start slow - he started fast and just got faster. Not having to worry about a dangerous uppercut would allow him to implement that even more imo. I've thought for years that guys like Frazier and Tyson are nightmares for Usyk style wise.

I'm a big fan of Usyk and have been for years. I would actually pick him against some top fighters. But the obvious fanboy picks and recency bias are tiring.

It's been this way for years mate People would rather support their fanboyism by arguing about modern flabby being (x)lbs bigger, because he had a big drink of water beforehand or whatever, than think in stylistic sense. Drives you mad.

 

My stock may drop when you see the Toney vs Foreman thread I made boy was that a silly idea.