Cross-Arm guard Thread: Resources, Techniques, Recommendations.

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by Rollin, Sep 8, 2022.


  1. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thread for thoughts, breakdowns, and training tips for all the guys trying to revive the legendary lock.
     
  2. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lee Wylie, 4 years ago:
     
  3. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
  4. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
  5. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I don't see how the cross arm defense leaves you open to uppercuts. Left hooks yes but I never got caught with uppercuts
     
  6. captain hook

    captain hook Well-Known Member Full Member

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    George Foreman had good cross guard in 90s, Dwight Muhammad Qawi also, Joe Frazier, James Toney etc..

    Today it is rarely seen, probably only when fighter gasses.. I think it's a little bit lazy guard, used by heavy hitters who could absorb a lot of punishment without losing too much steam and get back with hard punches of their own.

    I like the part of crushing your opponents hands with elbows. I always thought that it protects you well against uppercuts but maybe I was wrong.. Tried it few times in sparring, never felt safe in that guard, but I believe that it works for specific fighters.
     
  7. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't see it either.
     
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  8. sasto

    sasto Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I like eccentric styles for any sport or game.

    It's like being a southpaw. You have tons of experience fighting against an orthodox stance or normal style but they don't have much experience fighting yours.

    Unfortunately, in boxing, the learning process for weird styles is very painful.
     
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  9. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Alright guys. At some point I went full ****ing insane for the crossguard, researching it religiously, sparring countless rounds, discussing it and seeking out any possible source or information, and finally dramatizing it so much so that writing a book about the guard became one of my life's great goals.

    I'll update you.
     
  10. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 MONZON VS HAGLER 2025 Full Member

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    Why? It’s complex and isn’t like it has some special innate quality that puts it above conventions boxing, in the wrong hands it’s a liability… Charles was just one of the best versions of conventional boxing and he bossed its best user to 3-0, find a real teacher of it or you’ll need to be a master of observation to really learn. Ask Witherspoon questions maybe? He’s accessible.
     
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  11. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Charles was also a massive puncher and one of the GOAT candidates. Archie is still one of the top 3 LHW ever.

    Will hopefully manage to write a lengthy post in which I can express my love.
     
  12. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 MONZON VS HAGLER 2025 Full Member

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    Well yeah but really it’s not worth the literal head ache or brain cells IMO…. What advantage if any does it have? Can you do anything you can’t do in a regular stance in a more obvious way? I watch a lot of Fullmer and I really can’t figure it out… I’m trying myself as a side hobby but I won’t be able to know for sure if I’m getting it right lol
     
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  13. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not a comprehensive list, but some off the top of my head benefits. The system is different though, rather than being straight superior, you are right in that manner.

    Closes most angles for straight punches and protects the body.

    Folding your arms is by no mean a fixed position, and there is a spectrum between how much you reinforce your defense of the body or head (Archie Moore with his sublime head-movement would often close off the body while tempting the snakes to bite him.) Still, at certain distance there are no easy angles to explore or cut through like you would a high guard. You can aim at the top of the head, but it means you are aiming at a very slippery target that with proper head-movement will be disappearing, and when it does, a counter is coming.

    Also, uppercuts are much, much harder to land. Chisora pretty much prevailed against Joyce because he shelled himself in a crossguard and bobbed and weaved like a helicopter.

    Per the Pareto distribution, enables your lead hand greatly.

    With rear hand parries and cross blocks taking most of the defensive responsibility until you shell-up fully, you can really work that lead hand while stifling their own offense with your own drilled rear hand parries, blocks, and frames, all the while ready to enter the Lock as Archie would call it, either as a panic move combined with bobbing and weaving, or to smother and pressure up-close.

    Allows you to enter a defensive stance from a long guard, a parry, or after a punch.

    In a sport that often thrives on split seconds, being able to turn a punch, a longer, parry, or a long guard maneuver into an elbow flip and later the classic Lock is very useful. This is a property that David Christian a.k.a Modern Martial Artist often accentuates. You have to drill that flow though, and you have to drill your options from the Lock—bobbing and weaving inside, clashing inside, unloading two-fisted combinations (and you have to be comfortable unloading from the crossguard, from that position with lowered hands, both hands online.)

    Limits shot selection against your head-movement.

    Similarly to peekaboo (in which originally left very little to target but the head) crossguard opens the top of the head, but it's an opening you really, really feel and if trained properly understand (and if you don't, you won't be able to properly utilize your head and upper-body movement to set-up counters and shots. High guard, against a competent user, can be sliced with uppercuts, slipped through at an angle, bent and banged at the ribs (Inoue-Cardenas, Zhang-Kabayel). It provides proper defense at a lot of points, but the more concertedly focused wall of the Lock allows you to start thinking and working in a different manner, baiting shots, crushing with your elbows, banging at the body and breaking their rhythm.

    Sets-up your rear hand.

    When not locking your arms, your lead hand should shoot, while your rear hand catches, like a rapier and buckler, or sword and shield. Rear hand will parry, feint, extend to jam their jab, elbow flip and block horizontally. All that movement works to desensitize your opponent to the initial movement of your rear punches (e.g Tim Witherspoon's overhand right, Archie Moore's fantastic right hand) and makes your opponent more dangerously comfortable with it being extended towards him.

    All those movements should be drilled to flow into the Lock (folded arms) and subsequent pressure, bob and weave movement, or two-fisted combinations. Bottom line though is that you will work out of the lock position (lead low, rear higher and active is the position enabling the crossing of the arms once needed.) There are match-ups when you might want to work out of the crossguard alone, drawing, pressuring, or even walking down your opponent, but it's usually against lengthy, tall boxers you want to fight inside.



    Crossguard demands a lot of skills that are a niche in the amateur boxing. It demands you to be more comfortable moving linearly, more comfortable crushing enemy punches; it demands you to drill recovery into an elbow flip and the Lock, it demands you to know how to shorten your height (your exposed top of the head will be attacked by looping punches the closer you are, so you need to understand how moving forward, bending at the waist, and in a more energy-consuming manner bobbing and weaving keeps you safe.)
     
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  14. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    As to Charles-Archie—Ezzard can be argued to be the GOAT. He was a murderous puncher, he had an insane track record against the Murderer's Row demons and 2-0'ed Charley Burley. Most importantly, he fought Archie before the Sam Baroudi tragedy took the killer out of him. He stopped Arch a the fight before.

    Also, their second bout was a majority draw, and Archie felt he won, which I'm inclined to believe (or at least call it close to a draw) given that they were fighting in Ezzard's hometown. The third bout was straight gunslinging, somebody had to go.

    The crossguard served many boxers through history extremely well.
     
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