Joe Louis vs Muhammad Ali's opposition

Prime Louis beats them all. Liston is overrated af who Louis would easily diffuse and dismantle once he takes away his jab goes the same as the Baer fight. Batters Patterson, batters Frazier too fast and hits too hard on the inside. Batters Norton who was always weak to good power punchers and couldn't fight on the backfoot at all especially not against someone on the level of Louis. Foreman is goes the same as Liston not enough craft or skill to take on someone on the caliber of Louis. Holmes would be the most difficult matchup would probably give Louis some trouble with his jab and footwork but he was always a bit vulnerable to right hands. Louis picks up on that and drops him then finishes him but could see Holmes winning if he survives that but considering how good a finisher Louis is this seems unlikely. Just my hot take though

 

Basically here’s how it is… Prime Louis would destroy Frazier, that fight is a mismatch watch the first 2 rounds of the Quarry fight and tell me Louis doesn’t get him out of there in the same scenario? Norton is a mismatch nobody should argue otherwise… Foreman? Who in Foreman’s corner would even dare utter the words “Go right at him, swing wide and get square inside” lol he’d be torn to shreds inside… Ali? I’m sure he can improve on Bonavena, Cooper, Norton, Frazier… like seriously? Norton basically followed the textbook Louis way and fell short of it lol, I should basically tally everytime Norton cornered Ali with his foot in the bucket and chopped him up with his caveman combos.

 

How does he take away listons jab

 

The same way he took away Farr’s jab, who was another elite jabber in his own right. Louis’ parry game is unmatched especially with how he uses it to neutralize his opponent’s jab

 

I'm not sure it's a good idea to parry Listons jab if you're not moving, though Louis would probably set up his counters off it. I just think Louis has his hands full here when Liston has the better defense, the better chin, more range, more power and really worked the body up close. Louis would outclass him on the inside, but it's a hard fight man

 

Louis was the master of parrying jabs with his right glove and then countering with his own jab. Liston was pretty lazy with his jab just spammed it and then relied on his sizw and crazy reach to keep him safe. Not gonna work against Louis who would time his jabs and counter them.

 

Tyson outjabbed guys, your feet and timing have a lot more to do with your ability to “out jab” someone then “bro his arms are long” lol.

 

Tommy Farr had a lazy jab. Liston had a power jab, you probably think it's lazy because it wasn't swift. A real heavy jab can make it harder to parry and disrupt someone's rhythm if it tags them once. We saw Dubois do this against aj. Liston has some reach over Louis and was good at stepping back so Louis isn't guaranteed to land his counters.

Liston doesn't even require the reach, he has the better defense here, he moved his head and blocked more than Louis because he kept his hands up higher. It's not accurate to say he relied on his size to stay safe when he showed these attributes against bigger guys. I really don't see Louis controlling this fight, i think he would have to burrow his way in and work up close to a points win

I personally don't think it's a good match up for Louis, but agree to disagree. Thanks for the response

 

I think PRIME Joe Louis should be considered the favorite over all of them. If he ages, it depends on when he was born in this scenario, but Father Time may catch up to him and defeat him in a 16 year run.

 

I can't see him going unbeaten on this list especially considering some of them would have rematches.

You have Frazier's relentless pressure if the opponent can't physically impose on him. Liston's power and jab then Holmes's master boxing and the fact Foreman has that punchers chance against anyone.

 

“Power jab” is that new phrase? - Liston did not have a better defence then Joe Louis, there isn’t one aspect of boxing he looks like he’s better at lol JL was much better then the guy who was chasing down the Folleys, Machen’s and Patterson’s of the world….

 

You take away Listons jab, by jabbing with him his reach is irrelevant then… you take a little step to your right to shorten his reach… you can make him reach with said jab and counter that too, you can slip it and counter you can do endlessly creative things and I’m sure Blackburn had a plentiful cache of ideas, the thing is taking away someone’s jab disarms them yes but makes them harder to hurt it’s difficult to KO someone who is just jabbing and not really fighting, just moving around - he’d let Liston keep his jab and counter his right hand or left hook, it’s why Joe stayed in range so often for long periods he wanted someone to set there feet and punch so he could light them up… Liston habitually took away his own jab by lumbering forwards always, he pushed off most jabs I saw him throw and at times leaned into it like Dubios actually… which is a good way to get killed by Joe Louis.

 

Reach does not become irrelevant by jabbing with the opponent lol and Louis didn't do those things as frequently as Liston. He mostly parried like against Baer and Farr. He sacrificed some head movement for being in perfect position to throw combinations, this is why movement and feints trouble him so much. Louis vs Pastor is a good example. Liston has trouble with movement because he's slow, but he wasn't as mechanical as Joe and had a better jab

Louis was a superior counter puncher, combination puncher and had better timing. But if he were to come over the top with a counter right or a left hook Liston can just step back or block, it's not complicated. He made use of his long large arms besides having a heavy jab.

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He has better defense than Joe Louis, its clear as day. It's a myth that he's crude and lumbering only looking for power shots. This idea that Liston couldn't box off the backfoot is false. Louis has never slipped 3 fully extended jabs in a row or slip a 2 punch combination and block the follow up shots. Liston has. Cruder fighters with less ability and power have landed leather on Louis and hurt him. Liston vs Besmanoff is probably the best example of Liston being tactical. You talk about h2h alot, but I think Liston is h2h better. The question is, did Liston get hit more compared to Joe Louis ? He didn't.

Louis used and pawed the jab to set up shots mainly. Liston used the jab to set up shots and as a weapon. He also used it to push fighters and create space

 

I’m not addressing this because CBF but basically “NAH”