Rocky Marciano has a very good case for #1...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by FrankieCas, Aug 24, 2008.


  1. FrankieCas

    FrankieCas New Member Full Member

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    for the reasons posted by Carmelo Modica:


    My list of the top 5 heavyweights is:

    1. Marciano, and in the next four positions, in no particular order: Dempsey, Louis, Tunney, Ali.

    It isn't apparent at first, but when you start comparing Marciano's fights to any of the 70's boxers, you start to see what made Marciano almost unbeatable. He had virtually endless stamina, in fact he had the best stamina in boxing history. He punched for 15 rounds and never got tired. He would never give his opponent a second to catch his breath. Could you imagine if Ali had fought Marciano instead of Frazier? There would be no "cruising" through a round to recover energy. Ali would have been KO'd if he slowed down even for one second against Marciano. Watch the first Ezzard Charles-Rocky Marciano fight. No cruising allowed. Plus he was small enough to hit anyone on the chin. His bigger opponents were all brutalized. I would give George Foreman little chance against him. To beat Marciano, it would take a fast, smaller man like Gene Tunney, to outbox him and win a decision. But it would have to be Tunney on his best day ever. Marciano had better stamina than Dempsey. You would have to hit Rocky frequently to win points, but each time you hit, he would have a good chance to hit you with his stronger punches. Two guys tried to stick-and-move Marciano: Roland LaStarza and Harry Kid Matthews. They were both KO'd. LaStarza lost by SD the first time, but even there he was floored for 7. Marciano had lost a round for a low blow, or it would have been unanimous.

    Every strategy has been tried against Marciano. Joe Walcott tried to give him everything he had in round one, in an attempt to knock him out early. Marciano was floored for 2 seconds and got up as if nothing had happened, and proceeded with his usual slow-but-steady demolition.

    I think Tunney, LaStarza and Ali would have been capable of beating Marciano on points in maybe one out of five fights. But no more than that. Watch the LaStarza and Matthews fights on youtube and you'll see why I'm so pessimistic.
     
    Jackomano likes this.
  2. FrankieCas

    FrankieCas New Member Full Member

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    Feb 14, 2006
    And because of his dedication:


    From Joyce Carol Oates' essay/book "On Boxing" :

    "..... Marciano was willing to seclude himself from the world, including his wife and family, for as long as three months before a fight. Apart from the grueling physical ordeal of this period and the obssessive preoccupation with diet and weight and muscle tone, Marciano concentrated on one thing : the upcoming fight. Every minute of his life was defined in terms of the opening second of the fight. In his training camp the opponent's name was never mentioned in Marciano's hearing, nor was boxing as a subject discussed. In the final month Marciano would not write a letter since a letter related to the outside world. During the last ten days before a fight he would see no mail, make no telephone calls, meet no new acquaintances. During the week before the fight he would not shake hands. Or go for a ride in a car, however brief. No new foods ! No dreaming of the morning after the fight ! For all that was not the fight had to be excluded from consciousness. When Marciano worked out with a punching bag he saw his opponent before him, when he jogged he saw his opponent close beside him, no doubt when he slept he "saw" his opponent constantly - as the cloistered monk or nun chooses by an act of fanatical will to "see" only God.
    Madness ? - or merely discipline ? - this absolute subordination of the self. In any case, for Marciano, it worked."
     
  3. BlackWater

    BlackWater G.Wash. Full Member

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    How would he deal with someone like Tyson?
     
  4. Nick Balsamo

    Nick Balsamo Member Full Member

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    Foreman, Liston and Lewis would hurt him badly.
     
  5. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ...........Unless someone can show me Marciano's results in a Vo2 max. test, any claim that he has "the greatest stamina in boxing history" is really a rather silly claim. There is no way to tell that.

    The rest of it is just fanboy stuff. Great fighter, for sure, but.......
     
  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Which rounds did you see Ali "cruise" against Frazier? I can't remember one round in their three meetings where Frazier let Ali have an easy time. Ali did slow down in some rounds, but that didn't mean Frazier did.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if Frazier's punch output was better on average than Marciano's. Manilla is said to be the HW title fight with most punches thrown, and this when both guys was well past their prime.

    As for Ali-Marciano... Anything a 38 year old Walcott could do, a prime Ali could do way better.
     
  7. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Be sure that there is a reason I clicked on this thread, and that is to rofl.

    :rofl

    That is all.
     
  8. dmille

    dmille We knew, about Tszyu, before you. Full Member

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    A monster two-handed puncher like Foreman given "little chance". ALL heavyweight punchers always have a chance.
     
  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    He ws faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound ... :patsch .... there is nothing like Marciano fans .. they think he was a messiah ...

    Rocky was a great crusierweight ... a warrior, great power, chin, heart and stamina ... however guys, he was human.
     
  10. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  11. dmille

    dmille We knew, about Tszyu, before you. Full Member

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    I believe you might be thinking of a certain US politician...
     
  12. heehoo

    heehoo TIMEXICAH! Full Member

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    Tyson, Foreman, Dempsey and Frazier would give The Rock hell.
     
  13. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Rest by sured that Liston, Lewis and Holmes would all school Marciano.

    Foreman and Tyson would probably TKO him. Dempsey likewise.
     
  14. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    As much as I truly respect and admire Rocky Marciano, I think awarding him the position of #1, is a very difficult case to make. Granted, he is the only heavyweight champion to have never lost a pro match, defeated several hall of famers in convincing fashion, and at one point, had the the highest win/Ko ratio ever, until Foreman surpassed it. All of the above acheivments have cemmented Marciano's place in my personal top five, but I can't see rating him as number one. While the man certainly had quality as opposed to quanitity on his side, 7 title fights is not that many when compared to the resumes of Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali. Addtionally, I think those two men defeated a larger number of all time greats who were at or near their primes.
     
  15. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's the FIGHTS/KOs ratio that matters, not wins/KOs. Otherwise, a guy who's 3-10 (3 KOs) has a higher knockout percentage than Foreman or Marciano. Marciano has the highest knockout percentage of any linear heavyweight champions.

    Marciano had fewer title fights than Ali and Louis, but they had far more "throw-away" title fights than he did; Marciano had only one semi-throw-away title defense, that being the Cockell fight, which was still against a legitimate contender. Ali and Louis made a substantial portion of their title defenses against guys like Bob Roper, Richard Dunn, an old, shot-in-the-gut Cleveland Williams, etc. who were clearly not qualified challengers. Thus, I think the overall "substance" of Marciano's title reign as compared with Ali's and Louis' is much closer than an unadulterated "number-of-title-fights" statistic would lead one to believe.
    Of course, even still, Ali and Louis had far greater top-tier longevity than Marciano did, with Rocky only fighting at the elite level for about five years in total, whereas they each had a span of three times that length in which they were competing near the top. If one places great emphasis on longevity, then yes, it is difficult to place Marciano ahead of Ali or Louis. I, too, place a good deal of emphasis on longevity, and so I also rank Ali and Louis ahead of Marciano; however, if one's criteria are slightly different, I think an all-time #1 ranking for Marciano is entirely reasonable. Surely it can't be unreasonable to rank the only undefeated heavyweight champion in history who had the most consecutive wins and highest knockout average of any linear champion, was 7-0 with 6 knockouts in world title fights, and defeated all of the top four to five best opponents of his era in clear-cut and decisive fashion as the greatest in history. For me, he's #4, but if one is being objective, I think the case for placing him as high as one wishes has to be seen as reasonable.