Usyk targeting Wilder?

Usyk is elite talent.

Prime Wilder never proved he was more than B-grade talent... Lately he's looking miles off even that.

 

Exactly. Which is why I don't understand why his name is being thrown out as the fight anyone is wanting for Usyk..... I'm even more clueless that I got any kind of push back in regards to expressing what his actual value is in the ring, realistically.

 

Wilder is a known name. I don’t think Usyk is afraid of Parker, but I do think he wants to maximize his paydays.

 

I respect what you're saying but Fury is clearly many, many levels above Parker, despite being a similar type of fighter. The gulf between them is enormous. Fury is the one heavyweight Usyk faced that came close to his level of skill. Fury was in the best shape possible physically and mentally for both fights, and It was a joy to watch two geniuses and their unique styles collide. I didn't score the fights but watching them at the time, I felt they were a lot closer than a lot of people on here did. Usyk definitely won the first... he took over once he busted Fury's nose and then unleashed that savage attack that concussed him. But I felt the 2nd fight was quite close. When you get two super talents facing one another, it often feels as if they cancel each other out, or take turns in dominating the rounds, if you get what I mean. Anyway I'm rambling now... but yeah, I can't really compare Fury to Parker due to the gulf in talent, plus the size difference, and I feel Fury has a bit more power.

I feel like Usyk-Parker will be a boring, very one-sided shutout. I'm happy to be proven wrong, believe me. Nothing would please me more. And you're very welcome to be all like 'I told you so', haha. But I'm only going by some of Parker's previous performances. He got comfortably outboxed by Joshua, the first time Joshua ever used that style. A lot of people felt he was gifted a points decision against Ruiz. And Chisora 1. So, if you're not convincingly outboxing the likes of them, then you've got zero chance against Usyk. That just leaves the chance for a KO. Again, Parker is one of the last guys I'd rely on to get a KO, although I'm not saying it's impossible.

 

But is it, really?

There's a massive gulf in hype, but they both have their strengths and weaknesses... Both dealt with Wilder easily (the one time Fury came in fully fit and prepared), both have good chins and recovery - and neither has great power.

I don't think it's at all clear that there's a huge gulf between them - Parker is prime right now, if the two fought tomorrow I wouldn't be at all surprised if Joe won... Wouldn't bet on it, but that says it all, really.

Fury at absolute peak (Wlad) was probably better, but that's a long time ago and it was a rare mistake-free performance by Fury's standards, something he openly admitted himself...
Part of the problem with assessing exactly how good Fury is right now is he hasn't won a meaningful fight in a while...

But there's issues with evaluating Fury as a whole, too - whilst the ability to completely change style to a more aggressive one was impressive, it also winds up with a lot of people creating this weird gestalt of Fury in their minds, where he's both slick and elusive AND able to be aggressive... The problem is, the two styles can't be combined in Fury - when he fights more aggressively he gets sloppier and gets hit a lot more easily, and when he goes slick and difficult to hit the power is lacking.

Both versions are decent, but the mythical imagined version that hits quite hard whilst being slick and difficult to hit is what a lot of people seem to rate highly.

On the contrary - I felt both fights were very clear, and on cards shouldn't have been as close as they were scored... Plenty of rounds were competitive and it was interesting to watch, but Usyk won very clearly.

It's one of those cases where it can be relatively wide and yet still not a complete blowout.

Again, I think a lot of that gap is illusory, and I don't think there's any difference in power worth speaking of - at least not when Fury knows he has to keep the mistake count as low as possible (which he did, by his standards, he was just inferior to Usyk in ring IQ especially).

Maybe - but then Usyk-Fury pretty much was, but it was still interesting... And Usyk-Parker should be as well.

It's more likely to be interesting than Kabayel, or anyone else for that matter - Usyks just levels above.

A fair bit of that is a long time ago - Parker's improved since, so it's not necessarily the case.

Still - sure, it's very unlikely he could beat Usyk... But he's easily the most deserving of a chance to try, easily the best legacy addition of the guys still available.

It's the fight to make, really.

 

He's a known name, sure, but he was never a particularly big draw even at the peak of his hype... And now everyone knows he's been exposed and hasn't won a remotely decent fight in years - even the casuals know better than to buy that big a mismatch, surely?!

 

As if Usyk-Fury was boring. FFS.

Agendas blind.

 

I hope we do get to see Usyk vs Parker, we to see how Parker's final form stacks up. Which is also how I think Parker views the fight, he wants to know where he sits next to the others.

I don't think it will be as one sided as most people are saying, including all the commentators and pundits.

If they do end up fighting though, and Parker does decent, I can't wait to see all the excuses come in like clockwork about how Usyk is old and that it was obvious Parker would do that well from the beginning etc. Just part and parcel of a Parker fight these days.

 

To be honest, after the two beatings to Fury, I feel like Wilder had lost that killer instinct. It definitely wasn't the same Wilder that fought Fury thrice... I remember the interview in the ring after, where Wilder didn't seem upset at all that he'd lost. He seemed a completely different guy to the one that refused to accept defeat against Fury in the 2nd fight, to the point where he made up all those ludicrous excuses. I keep hoping that we can get that Wilder back, which is why a fight vs Usyk would interest me, but I'm doubtful.

See, that's where we differ. I didn't feel both fights were complete shutouts at all... although I am just going by memory, to be fair. The first fight, Usyk was clearly winning the first few rounds, but then in the mid rounds Fury was giving Usyk some problems, and as an Usyk fan, at one point, I was starting to get worried, as I thought Fury might start to take over. However, like usual, when Usyk is up against it, that's when you see the best of him. He then busted Fury's nose and then unleashed that attack which concussed him badly, and pretty much won the rest of the rounds. I felt it was a clear Usyk win, but not as clear as I imagine Usyk-Parker to be. The second fight, however, Fury was a lot more cautious, and I felt like both guys kind of cancelled each other out. I remember feeling at the end of fight, that I wasn't quite sure how this was going to go, on the cards. But... I'll be real with you, I only started watching boxing less than 10 years ago, so I don't claim to be an expert. Maybe I miss things that I should see, and usually, when watching a main event, I am incredibly tense, particularly when I am rooting for somebody.

Granted, Ruiz was a long time ago. Chisora 1 not so much. I guess the only way to compare Fury and Parker is their common opponents. The Wilder thing I already discussed above. And, Fury dominated Chisora in all 3 fights... whereas, like I said, Chisora 1... I personally felt Parker won myself, but a lot of people don't. He won against Chisora convincingly in the 2nd fight though and was close to stopping him multiple times. He had a very close fight with Whyte, whereas Fury beat Whyte with ease. Plus, you have to look at hypotheticals, and ask, would Fury have lost to the other guys Parker lost to? I don't see any way Fury loses to Joyce, even the Joyce that was on a run before Zhang ruined his world. And there's no way Joshua outboxes Fury the way he did Parker. I think Fury-Joshua would be close, but I think Fury wins on points, probably after getting up off the canvas like usual.

Edit: I will agree with you thought that Parker has definitely improved, not just physically but I think mentally too. I feel like he's probably in his prime right about now, and is getting the very best out of himself. He seems more mentally focused and determined than he has ever been before.

 

To be honest, it sounds very much like apologetics and special pleading to me...

Wilder never proved he was legit, and claiming he absolutely was until Fury beat him comfortably three times (two of which without being anywhere near peak fitness or condition) is both without evidence and seems rather convenient.

I saw it differently - he'd fallen for his own nonsense about #2 being either cheating or lucky... Getting the snot beaten out of him by a fat Fury fresh from the couch made it impossible to ignore.

I'm not poking fun at you - it's something I see in A LOT of posters...

But I think some people just need hype to get really excited about a fight.

And Parker just isn't hyped - he's got that "paint dry Parker" reputation that makes people assume his fights are going to be crap, and then they either don't really watch properly or see what they want to see.

I don't think Parker against Usyk would be significantly less interesting than Fury against Usyk - nor do I think Kabayel or anyone else right now would make a much more interesting fight.

But see for me, the Wilder thing is that special pleading thing - Fury gets max credit, then nobody else can because it would take away from Fury.

And because Parker was so clean and tidy, completely shutting down Wilder, arguably even better than Fury did... Wilder must've been shot - rather than just totally outclassed by a guy miles better than anyone he ever beat?

I think that's uncharitable to Parker, and unjustifiably generous to Wilder.

Fury got Whyte fresh off Povetkin shattering his chin completely... Where Parker fought a confident Whyte in his prime.

Sure, Fury did better - but there's context that weighs into that.

Don't take this the wrong way, but this reads a bit like saying... "And here's my take on how other fights might've gone based on my assessment of both fighters - please take this as evidence of why I rate one higher than the other".

It's a bit of circular logic - you only make those hypothetical judgements because you've already decided which guy was better, you can't then take that back to the start as evidence of why you believe that, surely?

I don't know...


That Joyce wouldn't have been bothered by Fury's mediocre power in the slightest - Fury would've been likely to pitty-pat away to a wide decision.

Then again, if Parker had fought that way he'd have very likely won a wide decision, too...

And if Fury turned up to trade like Parker did, dumb though it was... Well, Fury's been knocked down by much lesser punchers.

I'm not convinced Joshua wouldn't have beaten Fury... But we'll never know how that might've gone at a sensible point in both their careers.

Contextually, lets not forget that was Parker relatively early in his career.

Maybe, I've always thought it would probably go the other way - like Ngannou, Fury wouldn't be able to play the hug and lean game with someone much stronger than him... And Fury either wouldn't have had anywhere near the power to keep Joshua away, or he'd have been leaving good openings for big punches and getting knocked down plenty (depending on which style he fought).

 

The Usyk-Fury fights weren't complete shutouts or anything near it. Anyone suggesting that is completely and utterly blinded by agenda.

 

Usyk-Fury 1

All three judges had Fury winning the 5th, 6th, 7th and 12th rounds and two of the three judges had Fury winning the 2nd round as well.

Shutout? LOL! Only if you are legally blind or blinded by agenda.

 

I mean, I'm a big Usyk fan, who doesn't like Fury all that much (I used to). So if anyone should have a pro-Usyk agenda it's me, but like I said to Bubbles, even I was getting worried mid-way through the first fight. I remember Fury starting to lay it on thick, and targeting Usyk's body, and you could see Usyk wasn't liking it. Usyk went back to his corner and sat down, with a look of concern. But that's when Usyk switches to another level... it's incredible how he does it. The mental strength of that guy is insane. And as for the second fight, was just way too close to call. Was delighted that Usyk won, but I wasn't certain at all that it was going to go that way.