Ike Ibeabuchi takes place of Sonny Liston. How does he do?

I mean Tua is as good or better than Clev… even if you give that fight to DT well Williams won’t be there for every round at that pace in a fight, Machen could pose a problem I assume Folley gets ran over and so does Patterson… basically yeah he can do everything Liston did, Liston is a very replaceable HW champ.

 

Loses to Machen

 

Does he lose to the one armed version who ran from Liston though? I think Ike kills that one with volume.

 

Too much of a head case for a long term run. He builds a decent record, gets a few good wins and then he does something to derail himself .

 

Machen is too mobile and too slippery. He will be on his bike way more than Byrd and Ali would give Ibeabuchi a boxing lesson, but realistically Ibeabuchi isn't mentally fit to reign even if he could beat them all

 

Basically I agree, I also think Byrd whilst better and more elusive then Machen was nowhere near as durable - Byrd admitted he got one tapped by Ike, Ike is not one tapping Machen lol had Byrd had Machen’s chin he’d have won.

 

Machen didn't run. Watch the film.

 

That would involve being very bored for nearly an hour… I’m not ever doing that again, Machen didn’t exactly fight and fought left handed that stood out to me, he actually straightened Liston out quite a bit and SL nearly fouled out.

 

He goes crazy after his first really hard fight and spends the rest of his prime into his middle age in an institution.

 

Sonny Liston gets no respect I swear.

Would have been fun to see Sonny break his foot off in Ike's behind.

 

“No respect” it’s eternally swinging back and forth between “Foreman if he boxed like Louis” and a more accurate IMO “decent champion” he was a very good HW who won the title but he isn’t special - like what he did really wasn’t that “much” ya know?

 

Decent chance Ike also ends up throwing a police officer headfirst into a trash can.

 

Beats everyone as easy as Liston until he meets Muhammad Ali who would beat him in 15 round fight by decision, but since Ike's punching output is high he will give Ali trouble for first couple of rounds.

Tua was miles better than Williams, he had iron chin with brutal power and stamina, was never KOed or stopped by TKO, I pick Tua to KO Williams and Ibeabuchi would do that even easier than Tua.

As for Machen, Ibeabuchi was the first one to stop prime Byrd, and Byrd was bigger and more skilled than Machen.


I pick Ike to do as easy as Sonny possibly better until he meets Cassius Clay who for me is unbeatable in his prime.

 

Liston was coming off a recent 3rd KO of Zora Folley when he fought Machen.

Given the way Machen fought Sonny, the Folley KO was not at all lost on him. Eddie clearly did his utmost to avoid the same heat that Liston could bring.

Machen did run but not literally every second of the fight.

Otherwise, when not running, Machen employed a number of spoiling and not so legal tactics to avoid proper engagement - he got away with same because Liston was the “deemed” villain, not Eddie -

Whatever the health of Machen’s right hand - had he thrown it more it would’ve put him at greater risk - and it’s obvious watching the fight that Machen fought a very risk adverse fight, across the board, at any rate.

Liston actually posted a fine and highly creditable performance against Machen - and would’ve likely improved the outcome in a rematch.

I think Sonny was probably a victim of the mentality that a puncher needs to KO everyone to validate themselves - ignoring the fact that Liston had a vast skill set to option and defer to against a less than willing opponent who avoided any real exchanges.

I guess some might’ve viewed Machen surviving Sonny as a relative “win” for Eddie and relative “loss” for Liston. IMO, that is well removed from the truth.

Even given the “one way” refereeing of Liston and consequential points deductions - (and Sonny was rightfully pissed off with Machen’s own not so kosher tactics at times), Liston still beat Machen easily and had absolutely no issues going the 12 round route.

Sonny was an abundantly, well optioned boxer/puncher with excellent IQ to know exactly when and how to apply himself. .

Liston was also actually a very clean fighter and if he committed any legit infractions in the Machen fight, one should also consider that they were duly reactive to Machen’s own, unregulated infractions.