Carlos Roque "Shotgun" Monzón vs. "Marvelous" Marvin Nathaniel Hagler - Definitive Classic Breakdown

*** DON'T VOTE UNTIL AFTER READING ***

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Yes, it's been done before. It will be done again.

Often, however, there is focus on which is the GOAT at 160lbs, or higher ranking ATG...or how either would fare against each other's competition. When the head to head match-up itself gets discussed, each man will have their smattering of confident backers (with a pithy sentence or two in justification, citing this or that perceived advantage, stylistic foible, or intangible) and there is often a murmured consensus of "it's a close one, alright..." before the whole topic quietly subsides.

Rarely have I seen a technical deep-dive, from the sundry keen analytical minds on here (ranging from published historians to incredibly dedicated hobbyist super-fans), on just how and why either champion is to be favored over the other. I want a detailed walkthrough of the way it plays out bell to bell - with all the dynamic interplay of their strengths & weaknesses.

So, ultimately, as in most poll threads - you simply vote. Prime for prime, whatever you consider the best of each versus the best of the other. Just know that a) you will be called upon to explain your choice in depth if you haven't already done so in-thread, and b) your vote will be irrevocable and you are marrying yourself to either Monzón or Hagler as your h2h winner. So, think it over if you must. Debate with your fellow Classic Forum denizens. Vote if and when you have made and feel at peace with your final decision.

Newbies are welcome to join in the conversation, and vote in the poll, but for posterity's sake I will be putting together and updating a tally counting only members with a) tenure of 1 year or more on here and b) minimum 1,000 posts (if you are short of either requirement; your pick can be officially counted once you meet it). To start things off I'll tag as many of what strike me as still currently active "regulars" below - apologies for any misses. (regulars defined as having at least poked their heads in to lurk if not post in the last few months)

TL;DR - if you want your vote counted in the

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tally, you need to be an

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with a

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and

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, make a

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, AND

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in the actual thread substantiating your decision.

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Glad to have one of this section's super heavyweights be the first to weigh in! (even if just ultimately to straddle the fence )

I'm hardly unbiased here, with Hagler being on my pugilistic Mt. Rushmore - but even for me, Monzón's abilities were formidable and daunting enough to give me pause.

Re: Monzón facing lefties, don't quote me on this but IIRC he never did actually face one, at least professionally. Then again, Hagler never faced anybody remotely like him.

 

• mcvey
• themaster458
• Viy
• @NoNeck

You've all cast your votes, so let's hear those arguments.

 

It was a pretty sobering chore to sift through hundreds of pages of content to determine who is & isn't "active", coming to realize just how many of the great intellects and tribal elders are no longer with us (in the sense of being either on prolonged sabbatical or banned from the board, or having shuffled off this mortal coil).

I can think of at least a dozen names off the cuff whose takes on this it would've been delightful to have included.

 

(don't bother with Google's stupid wonky AI tools for stuff like this ...it claims Monzón faced "several left-handers", including none other than Nino Benvenuti...)

What is certain is that from about 1970 onward, after becoming a contender and then champion with global eyes on him, Monzón never fought any. If he did see one in the pros it would have been in the sixties, with many of these obscures foes having their handedness unlisted on BoxRec or elsewhere. Needless to say, none of these would have been anywhere near the level of a MMH.

note: this isn't a knock on Monzón, either... many HOF and even ATG champions in the sport managed to go their entire career staring down few opposite handed opponents to none. Lennox Claudius Lewis, for instance, met just two in sanctioned contests - once in the pros and one in the amateurs. (in his case, it's long been rumored that he got spooked by a southpaw in sparring and vowed to not give any high-level ones a chance where it would count)

 

How instructive, if at all, do we find Bad Bennie Briscoe? He's, to my knowledge, their only common opponent. Of course that means he's bridging two different eras, even though only 5 years and change had elapsed between his losses to either one. Circumstances were also quite different; one scheduled for fifteen rounds and the other one for ten. Briscoe challenged Monzón while still winning more than he lost, and when the Argentine was the reigning champion; he was winding down as a 16 year veteran, on the other hand, when he valiantly tried but failed to defend his Philly home turf from the determined and just-priming 26 year old Brocktonian in what the Associated Press hilariously dubbed "Battle of the Balds".

 

...also, it bears repeating having a close look at Briscoe, going the distance with these middleweight monoliths - Monzón twice - at different stages of his career (and squaring off with the likes of Griffith, Kitten Hayward, Mundine, Rondón, Antuofermo, "Feo" Rodríguez, and George Benton) and never otherwise being so much as knocked down in 96 outings, what a gargantuan feat it was for Rodrigo Valdéz to stop him.