Carlos Roque "Shotgun" Monzón vs. "Marvelous" Marvin Nathaniel Hagler - Definitive Classic Breakdown

I voted for Hagler but i totally agree with your opinion of Kevin Finnegan.He was a fantastic fighter

 

I've been back and forth on this match up because I do find Hagler more pleasing to the eye and is more physically gifted as well but ultimately I choose Monzon due to his superb boxing prowess and he always seemed to be in command of the ring as well. Even though Monzon doesn't look as impressive on film compared to Hagler his ring IQ is superior, his jab was capable of keeping Hagler at bay, he always found a way to break another fighters rhythm, and almost never loses control in a fight.

It's a close hard fight that can go either way but I get the feeling Monzon will end up edging Hagler. No one gets dropped or stopped here.

 

I hate saying this, but Monzon on points. He was perhaps the world’s greatest nullifier. I hate watching his fights, but he was disgustingly effective in controlling the ring. Hagler will get to him here and there, but it won’t be enough. It will be close, and Hagler will ***** about the decision for years.

 

The Argentine Apex Predator


TBH when stuff is close I just go with silly solutions. Nothing more well thought our or insightful than the next jabroni. Hell, the guys before me put in way more effort, read them.

 

Right, here goes…

Hagler had 15 world title fights, the same number as Monzon. In 10 of those, he looked pretty much flawless: Minter, Antuofermo 2, Caveman Lee, Obelmejias x 2, Hamsho x 2, Sibson, Scypion and Hearns. The 5 that he looked somewhat less than peerless: Antuofermo 1 (draw), Duran, Roldan (shaky start for first 3 rounds), Mugabi (showing wear and tear but relied on his still iron chin and will to make it through) and Leonard (loss).

When the opposition was B grade, as it was for a lot of his reign, Hagler was usually awesome - he beat the less impressive fighters more impressively than Monzon did his equivalents, I would say.

When the opposition was A grade, he was less consistent and revealed the few small chinks in his armour. Hearns was a devastating and brilliant win, one of the great wins in the division’s history. No issue there.
Duran was an uncertain performance but he pulled it out when it mattered.
Leonard was a tactically poor performance from start to finish.

Monzon was brilliant in his effectiveness whilst not looking aesthetically as good as Hagler. But one of Monzon’s most effective traits was the ability to make the other guy look bad and neutralise their offense. Hopkins was very similar in that way to Monzon.

Hagler had a surprisingly long reach for a middleweight who was below average height. Monzon seemed even taller than his 5’11 frame due to the upright nature of his stance. His movements could seem formulaic or even robotic (jab, straight right) but it was a combo that worked for him his whole career and against quality opposition too.

The southpaw thing is a tricky one to imagine how much it would have impacted Monzon. As has been pointed out, Monzon didn’t really face any southpaws but then Hagler isn’t a normal southpaw, he’s a switch hitter and what’s more, he’s a converted southpaw, the most orthodox-style southpaw (if that makes sense) that I’ve seen. As someone who is not usually a fan of southpaws, the fact that I love Hagler’s style I think comes down to that - he never fought like a usual southpaw.

Maybe the seamless change of stance from southpaw to orthodox and back again would bother Monzon more than another southpaw who he could figure out over a number of rounds. Or maybe Monzon would just do what Duran did and time Hagler coming in with the jab and overhand right. That was a regular Monzon combo anyway and if a 5’7 former lightweight like Duran could land it regularly on Hagler, I suspect Monzon, with his extra height and reach, could too.

Chance of a KO/TKO win for either fighter? Nope. I’m 99% confident that this goes the distance. Why not 100%? That expresses a certainty that simply isn’t possible in a hypothetical matchup. Example: Rodrigo Valdez knocked out Bennie Briscoe the one and only time in Briscoe’s near hundred fight career. They fought three times and the other two went the distance. Briscoe was known to have an iron chin. If Briscoe and Valdez had only fought the two distance fights, no-one would be picking Valdez (or anyone else) to kayo Briscoe. Sometimes freak things happen in a boxing ring that can’t be predicted. But based on what we know of Monzon and Hagler, it seems highly, highly unlikely that either is stopped.

Monzon was dropped by Valdez too, but was up almost immediately and looked unfazed. He was actually hurt far worse by Briscoe, who rocked Monzon significantly and made his eyes bulge out of their sockets. Still, he didn’t go down. A fighter with a chin as solid as his and a defense as good as his isn’t getting knocked out, leaving aside a miracle Valdez-Briscoe type punch.

Hagler is likely even more impervious. The only official KD against him, versus Roldan, was bogus - a slip. The only other time people consider he was hurt was against Hearns in the first and, honestly, I didn’t see the wobble that the commentators claimed happened. Moreover, he took bomb after bomb against Mugabi and didn’t budge, even if Hagler admitted he was hurt. Neither Monzon nor Hagler were single punch destroyers either and both were too good technically to stand there and get tagged repeatedly against each other. I just don’t think it would be that kind of fight. No KO, no KD - it’s points all the way.

So who wins? Whenever I let my heart rule my head, I get disappointed. I picked Trinidad over Hopkins because I wanted Tito to win. He was the aesthetically pleasing fighter with the KO power, Hopkins was the spoiler. The spoiler won.

I give Hagler a much better chance of beating Monzon but my head still says Carlos. He has more ways to find a way to offset Hagler’s offense and I don’t think Marvin was as natural at making adjustments mid-fight to win. Hagler would definitely have his moments but I see Monzon using his natural height and reach to keep Hagler off-balance and guessing and potentially retreat into his shell, taming the beast mode that conquered Hearns and leaving him fighting more like he did against Duran. Unlike Duran, Monzon wouldn’t run out of steam. Monzon by close and competitive but unanimous decision.

 

Hi Buddy.
Excellent breakdown of both fighters strengths and weaknesses, I also picked Monzon to prevail in the most fascinating MW fight of the ages, Monzons mental toughness was legendary, and your thinking that Hagler might retreat into a shell is pallaple , and could quite possibly occur, I see Hagler being in the fight up until the last 4/5 rounds, after that it would become apparent to him and his corner, that Monzon was was made of stern stuff, and would not capitulate, instead would increase his workrate to an extent that Hagler would be on the defensive, during the latter stages of a 15 rounder, he never had the one punch power of Briscoe, and even Bennies vaunted right cross failed to put Monzon on the canvas, so yes points win for the surly, moody, magnificent, Argentinian.
Again thanks for your time and effort in a matchless post.
stay safe jel, chat soon buddy.
Mike.

 

So many great posts on both sides here. I can't add anything from a technical point that hasn't already been covered. Monzon was just befor my time while Hagler was and still is one of my favorites.
I've always liked Monzon in this match up. He isn't that impressive to watch but he has a way of controlling the fight. His ring generalship is second to none. He controls Hagler and forces him into his tempo. Nothing spectacular happend just a close fight with Monzon taking control around the 5th and taking a very close decision with Hagler just a half step behind throughout. Monzon tight decision

 

I think it’s slightly worth mentioning Monzon himself actually said he’d never fought a southpaw as a pro and that he had trouble with them, I’m nowhere near smart enough to say how he’d do against southpaws with my chest… how do you think his style would translate? Anything you think he’d have to majorly change? I’m on a rewatch of about 7 of both of there fights a piece to make a prediction because they’re both awesome and so is middleweight.

 

In my opinion there's no wrong answer here as to who would win, both have serious abilities. But here goes, I lean towards Hagler by decision . I think his ability to shift from orthodox to south paw during combat would be beneficial and Marvin had a big reach for a man his size and I think he'll get his jab in more often than Carlos. I think while both had very solid chins if anyone is getting hurt here it's Monzon.
Now, give me a few minutes and I'll second guess myself and tell ya how Monzon takes a UD

 

Thanks Mike for the kind words - always appreciate your posts.

 

BUMP - with some wise words from Hagler… “ You just ducked a couple but sooner or later you got the same whooping coming”

 

Just like the actual fight would have been

 

Really enjoyed the ebb and flow described in this post - sounds like a great fight!