Joe Louis's record vs ranked opposition

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:33 PM.


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  1. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So I made a deep dive on Louis' career 2 years back, but it seems that I missed on some of the ranked fighters Louis faced. So, I'm here to properly list them all in order, no life story or long paragraphs describing his career. Just the stats.

    1. W Stanley Poreda (#3 in 1932, 2 years prior)
    2. W Charley Messera (#8 in 1933 and prob at the time, as Louis dropped him off the 1934 list)
    3. W Lee Ramage (#10 at the time)
    4. W Patsy Perroni (#6 at the time)
    5. W Lee Ramage (#10 at the time)
    6. W Natie Brown (#8 at the time)
    7. W Primo Carnera (#2 at the time, former world champion)
    8. W King Levinsky (#5 at the time)
    9. W Max Baer (Champ 3 months prior)
    10. W Paulino Uzcudun (#3 in 1928)
    11. W Charley Retzlaff (#4 at the time)
    12. L Max Schmeling (#2 at the time, former world champion)
    13. W Jack Sharkey (former world champion)
    14. W Al Ettore (#9 at the time)
    15. W Bob Pastor (#8th by the end of the year)
    16. W Natie Brown (#8th in 1934)
    17. W James J Braddock (current world champion)
    18. W Tommy Farr (#2 at the time)
    19. W Nathan Mann (#3 at the time)
    20. W Max Schmeling (#1 at the time)
    21. W John Henry Lewis (current Light Heavyweight world champion)
    22. W Tony Galento (#1 at the time)
    23. W Bob Pastor (#2 at the time)
    24. W Arturo Godoy (#2 by the end of the year)
    25. W Johnny Paychek (#6 at the time)
    26. W Arturo Godoy (#2 at the time)
    27. W Red Burman (#3 at time)
    28. W Gus Dorazio (#9 in 1938)
    29. W Abe Simon (#4 at the time)
    30. W Tony Musto (#9 by 1942)
    31. W Buddy Baer (#6 at the time)
    32. W Billy Conn (#1 at the time)
    33. W Lou Nova (#8 at the time)
    34. W Buddy Baer (#7 at the time)
    35. W Abe Simon (#5 at the time)
    36. W Billy Conn (#1 at the time)
    37. W Tami Mauriello (#1 at the time)
    38. W Jersey Joe Walcott (#1 at the time, future world champion)
    39. W Jersey Joe Walcott (#1 at the time, future world champion)
    40. L Ezzard Charles (#1 at the time)
    41. W Cesar Brion (#7 by 1951)
    42. W Freddie Beshore (#8 in 1948)
    43. W Omelio Agramonte (#9 in 1949)
    44. W Omelio Agramonte (#9 in 1949)
    45. W Lee Savold (#2 at the time)
    46. W Cesar Brion (#7 at the time)
    47. W Jimmy Bivins (#7 in 1949)
    48. L Rocky Marciano (#10 at the time, future world champion).

    So that's a 15-1 record leading up to Braddock. More than twice as many wins over ranked men than Wilder has in his total career. Also a better record vs ranked fighters than Loma's entire career. It's true.

    23-1 in the championship run, more than Beterbiev and Loma have total fights period, and would have equalled Usyk's career fight amount a month ago. Better than any Heavyweight great's career record vs ranked men aside from Ali's. Better than Foreman's, Tyson's, Holmes', Marciano', Frazier's, Lewis', Usyk's, and yes, even Wlad's pathetic 22-4.

    Add the comeback run at 7-1, which makes for a total of 45-3.

    Louis wasn't all that though, haven't you heard ?
     
    Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:33 PM
    Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:33 PM
    #1
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  2. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That's as many wins vs ranked opposition as GGG has career fights btw.
     
    Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:34 PM
    Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:34 PM
    #2
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  3. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Looking forward to seeing how this thread unfolds.
     
    OddR, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:36 PM
    OddR, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:36 PM
    #3
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  4. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Did I forget to mention that Louis' comeback record (7-1) is actually better than Wilder's career record (7-4-1) ?
     
    Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:40 PM
    Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:40 PM
    #4
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  5. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

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    Joe FREAKING Louis! :D
     
    Shay Sonya, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:44 PM
    Shay Sonya, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:44 PM
    #5
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  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree, these numbers are insane.

    We will never see another Joe Louis.
     
    janitor, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:55 PM
    janitor, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:55 PM
    #6
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  7. Yorbals

    Yorbals Member Full Member

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    Aye,
    I choose Ali, but Ali and Louis have to be the top two
     
    Yorbals, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:58 PM
    Yorbals, Aug 14, 2025 at 1:58 PM
    #7
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  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There is a thread on that and I think Ali had one more who was ranked at the time of the fight. 31 to 30, something like that. Louis had more nr 1s, though;
     
    Bokaj, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:21 PM
    Bokaj, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:21 PM
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  9. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    This is why numbers don't always tell the whole story and relying on them entirely is foolish. While Louis is great its a fantasy to pretend like just because most of his wins were ranked that automatically makes them all good fighters. There's a good mix of genuinely good fighters and so so fighters who were ranked because of the weak era. Lets not pretend that someone like Natie Brown or Patsy Perroni would actually be top ten fighters in the 70s or 90s or even today. Louis should still be respected of course but gotta take his record in the proper context at least imo
     
    themaster458, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:26 PM
    themaster458, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:26 PM
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  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There are two very serious problem with that argument.

    Firstly how fighters from separate eras would fare head to head, is pure speculation, while records are a matter of historical fact.

    Secondly, even if fighters from later eras are better head to head, records still turn on what you accomplished relative to your era.

    I will throw you a third problem.

    A few of Louis's opponents look like they woudl have been very good in any era.
     
    janitor, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:36 PM
    janitor, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:36 PM
    #10
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  11. Maginot

    Maginot Member banned Full Member

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    Maybe I have ranked Louis to low.

    Great post
     
    Maginot, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:48 PM
    Maginot, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:48 PM
    #11
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  12. OddR

    OddR Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree it's not all about numbers but I like the fact people on this forum seem to give more worth to numbers and certain stats than other places (I assume this is why Wladimir Kiltschko in particular respected so much more on here than other places)

    But it does still seem with these older legends people take the numbers more with face value or use it as proof they are greater. With someone like a Floyd Mayweather who is a modern great with insane numbers himself it doesn't seem like this is the case though in particular when we get these P4P comparisons. Even though some of that may due to the fact many of the modern fighters are still fighting maybe it will change a bit when they retire.
     
    OddR, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:49 PM
    OddR, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:49 PM
    #12
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  13. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not necessarily depends on your criteria

    A few does a lot of work here
     
    themaster458, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:50 PM
    themaster458, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:50 PM
    #13
  14. Yorbals

    Yorbals Member Full Member

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    I’m less familiar with Louis era than Ali’s ( I’d guess most of us are ) ?
    But his era was strong.
    Who’s the most recent fighter that’s generally considered a ‘shoe in’ for the top ten ? Probably Lewis, a guy who was prime 30 years ago.
    That really says a lot about the lack of talent in recent times.
     
    Yorbals, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:54 PM
    Yorbals, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:54 PM
    #14
  15. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wlad and Usyk both of whom beat better fighters H2H then anyone Louis beat to be frank
     
    themaster458, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:59 PM
    themaster458, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:59 PM
    #15
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